The Outcasts

The Outcasts of Ashland, Kentucky

The Outcasts of Ashland, Kentucky, just over the West Virginia border turn in a fine mid-tempo ballad, “Loving You Somtimes”.

I recently heard from Al Collinsworth, vocalist and co-songwriter for the Outcasts. He filled me in on some questions I had about the band, including interesting background about the Plato label and about how “Loving You Sometimes” has become well known in funk and hip hop DJ circles.

I was in the Outcasts and remember the whole Plato experience. The Outcasts included Nick Wickware on drums (deceased); Dick Hall-Hawkins on bass (deceased); Ronnie Gibson on lead guitar; Ralph Morman and myself on vocals. I sang lead on “Lovin’ You”.

The Outcasts mostly played school parties, bars, the Hullabaloo Club in Huntington and we auditioned for Buddha Records in 1969. The group disbanded in 1969. We did manage to be an opening act for Neil Diamond one night.

Plato was originally intended to be an African-American music (Afrilachian) label. Dick Hall was the person who worked out the deal. Dick spent most of his life proving that Hawkshaw Hawkins was his father. Hawkshaw was a popular country star that died in a plane crash with Patsy Cline and Cowboy Copas.

Plato wasn’t sure they wanted to sign us. We paid for the studio time and Plato pressed the records. We recorded the record in Cincinnati at Queen City Studios, the same day that the Mustangs recorded their song. We were all friends and it was a very good time for both bands.

The record received local airplay and got on the Billboard charts. The amazing thing is that Lovin You has been released 4 different times on 4 different labels. Plato was the original release.

A second release was with a compilation record along with ZZ Tops’ first release and The Allman Joys’ first release (Allman Bros). I don’t have a copy of this record. A third release was in 1984 with BFD records in Australia on a compilation called “Highs in the Mid Sixties Vol. 9 – Ohio”. The liner notes read, “A Zombies-influenced, moody punk sound from Cincinnati, not to be confused with 18 other groups called the Outcasts!”

A 4th release was done in 2002 by Arista Records Hip-Hop Artists, DJ Shadow and Cut Chemist on the very popular “Product Placement” CD. Oddly, and I don’t know why, Loving You Sometimes is now a very popular hip-hop hit. Remixes have been done by DJ Shadow and DJ Ayres. LSD Phone Calls (a NYC hip-hop e-magazine wrote, “Maybe the perfect song. Garage psych dorks who hate this also hate the Zombies. Who hates the Zombies!?”

Ralph Morman later worked with the Joe Perry Project (Aerosmith) and Savoy Brown.

In 1972, I worked with Pre (ZNR Records) which was a Prog-Rock Band. I now have a self-titled release on CD Baby. I also play steel guitar and have a promo photo on the MSA steel guitar site in the SuperSlide section.

It seems that it took a long time for the song to become popular, but that’s always the opportunity for any recording. All I can say is why not?

Al Collinsworth

Thank you to Al Collinsworth for relating the history of the band, to Ronnie Gibson for the great photo at top and to jgtiger for the photo at bottom.

108 thoughts on “The Outcasts”

  1. Wow — what a thrill to get to read what Al Collingsworth had to say about those years and all he’s done since — and such cool insight into the music of the time — AND to hear this song! My cousin Mark Fosson who is now a Drag City artist, had a band called “Revolution” and they played with The Outcasts (Dreamland Swimming Pool in nearby Kenova, W Va was a thriving venue for local bands — it was cool too — big dancefloor — in an art deco pool setting!) The Collingsworths lived very close to Mark’s house, I could walk there from his house (I didn’t live in Ashland, but was there a lot to visit kin).

    I was younger than these fellas, and was more the age of Al’s brother Larry (we had a little fling). Larry I had heard from our old pal David Friley had become an awesome guitarist himself in a prog band in the 70s. He was already playing when we were kids. He was the first person to turn me on to Terry Reid!

    Come to think of it, I mighta smooched with Ralph Mormon too. It was the 60s!

    It would be very cool to put Mark and Al in touch again — they even seem to be doing similar music now. And damn, someday I need to make a doc on all the great music outa my hometown of Ashland, Ky!

    Fabulous site– keep it up!!

    Allison Anders, film director/screenwriter

    1. Hi Allison I don’t no if you remember me or not, but I dated Larry Collinsworth in high school, we hung out for awhile then, glad to no, that some of us remember the Outcasts, glad you are going good, I no I won’t hear back from you, but wanted to say hi! anyway. Take care Catherine Clark

  2. Hi allison,

    You mentioned a combo from Ashland, the Revolution.
    I have a 45 by a group with that name, released in early ’69. “Revolt” is one song, sounds like a crude early effort by the Jefferson Airplane, minus female vocals of course! The flipside is “A Guide For Living”
    Writer credits show a Tim McCowan and Chris Safrit.
    Might this be the same group?

    MopTopMike, the need2know guy

  3. Thank you Allison!!!!!
    Your cousin Mark was one of the best guitar players in Ashland and everything that he did after he left Ashland proved it. I can remember when Mark and I played guitars in his basement garage on Beech Street. Now, those were very good times. How in the world did I miss out on all of that great smooching??? I must have been playing my guitar or something.
    Al

  4. Hey there MopTopMike,

    No that wasn’t the same “Revolution” as they never recorded, but wow — would LOVE to hear those songs you mentioned! Revolution was Mark Fosson, Dan Gore, David Richmond and I can’t remember the drummer’s name. My fave of their songs was a psychdelic “Gasoline Rainbow”. And my cousin Mark Fosson just told me he and Al Collinsworth of The Outcasts had a band together BEFORE “Revolution”!

    Allison A.

  5. Hi
    When did Nick die and from what…Where is Morman now??I knew both of them ..They use to come to my house when i was just a tad younger,lol…Actually i dated Nick and Ralph was just a good friend…I posted once and didn’t hear anything ..Just would like to know ..Thank you..Glenda

  6. HI……I was reading these posts and was wondering which Glenda this was?
    I also would like to know what happen to Nick. I understand that a lot of old friends have passed away.

  7. The Bluebeats were a great band!!!! Richard Stacy was a good friend to everyone who knew him, myself included. Thank you Dennis.

  8. I would like to see and hear the B-side (“Sha-La-La”) of the “OUTCASTS” record “Loving You Sometimes” posted on this web-site if possible. Thank you.

    My name is Dennis E. Snell and I am originally from Huntington, West Virginia and am now living in Ogden, Utah. I was in several local Rock bands in Huntington thru the 60′s, the last band I was in was “THE BLUE BEATS”, consisting of myself Dennis Snell (lead vocals, lead and rhythm guitar), Kim Peyton (Organ, rhythm guitar), Phil Miller (Lead vocals), Richard Stacy (lead guitar), Spencer Stinson (bass guitar), Scott Stinson (drums). We have a web-site you can check out, http://WWW.THE BLUEBEATS.ORG, we also have a book of our memoirs out written by Kim Peyton (our keyboard player), titled, “BAND BOYS”/Teenage Music Makers of the Sixties”. The Bluebeats broke up in 1968 and in October 1998 we got together for a so called 30 year re-union in memory of the death of lead guitar player Richard Stacy. The web-site is a documentary, so to speak, dedicated to the memory of Richard Stacy, The Bluebeats and the re-union. There is a link on the web-site to the book “BANDBOYS”. Please visit and enjoy our web-site and buy our book if you so desire, I am sure you will enjoy a trip down memory lane, re-living the history and formation of a local garage rock band of the 60′s from Huntington, West Virginia. The “BLUEBEATS” were friends of the “OUTCASTS”, “THE EXPLOSIVE DYNAMIKS” and other rock bands from the “Tri-State Area”(West Virginia, Kentucky, and Ohio).

  9. I’m reading Kim Peyton’s book about the Blue Beats entitled “Band Boys” and love it!!! (And not just because he kindly remembered me on page 38). Memoirs always make the best reading material and Kim finished an excellent writing with this book. Thank you Kim!!

  10. In 1968, Terry Lowe replaced Nick Wickware on drums and Carl Hackney replaced Richard Hall/Hawkins on bass.

  11. Hi All
    I knew Barbara very well.Know all about her and Ralph how they meet,where and alot of other things…She was totally gorgeous inside as well as outside…They really went through alot,but I lost contact with them and never know where they went..I got married and you lose contact with the gang you hang out with,sorry to say…Any info on them I would love to know,Kat

  12. Hi, I’m Ronnie Gibson (lead guitar) of the Outcasts. I accidentally found this site today. I have been in contact with Ralph Morman from time to time and was just this week trying to clean up a pic with Photoshop of the Outcasts Ralph had loaned me. He lives in the Ashland area now. Those were the days !!

  13. After a while, Ralph married Barbara and they had a son together, Tony. The marriage part of the deal didn’t last very long, and Barbara was mostly a single mom, living for a time with her mother, whose name completely escapes me. Tony was a very sweet baby boy with a wonderful disposition all the time – I watched him grow for about two years while maintaining a platonic friendship with Barbara. Eventually I left Huntington, and unfortunately lost track of both Barbara and Tony. He would be a grown man with his own children by now. I hope he inherited some of his dad’s musical abilities. Ralph was the consumate vocalist. Barbara waited for Ralph to “come back” but I don’t doubt that it never happened. She was as pretty as anyone in Cabell County and most of West Virginia, and a really nice girl with no bad habits. I guess living with a broken heart takes your mind off of bad habits.

  14. I used to date Ralph Morman and loved when he sang “Keep Me Hangin’ ON” by the “Vanilla Fudge”. I also have 3 copies of “Loving You”………….He gave them to me. I also gave him a ring…Ralph do you still have it???? After Ralph and I broke up :( I started dating Kim Peyton(we were both Marshall students) of “The Blue Beats” and we actually were married for 12 years. I would really like to do a follow up to his book “The Band Boys”…..I lived a lot of that book and he never mentioned me or his daughter who also lived it. I wish I knew he if he’s made much money from his book. Mine would probably have more truth to add, juicier and a best seller. I knew a lot about “him” and his fellow Blue Beats….
    This was fun to read, about the Blue Beats and Outcasts, those were fun days. Hi Alfred!!!!

    Anyone interested can email me at

    Bristols67@hotmail.com

    and that brings me to another band I loved, “The Bristols” from Charleston, WV
    I hope to hear from someone from the past………….Patty Harmon

  15. The Outcasts (Ralph, Ronnie, Carl, Terry and Al) would like to humbly wish everyone a very Happy 2009. Our best wishes to you all!!!

  16. An odd thing…my son goes to school in Lexington and enjoys many different venues of music and plays guitar in a band and D.J.s a spot on the local radio as well. I saw him yesterday and he said, “You have to hear this song I found recently. It’s my current favorite, a sixties band from Ashland, the Outcasts. Have you heard of them?” I was pleasantly astounded and laughed out-loud. Together we listened to ‘Loving you, Sometimes’. The last time I heard that song was on the radio in my early teens in Ashland, although I was much more familiar with the next generation of the band, as I was a former die-hard fan of the Appalachian Mainline in the early 70′s – the best local cover band of the time.

    Thank you for giving me that special moment in time to share with my son. Ever so cool.

    Sorry about Nick Wickware; I didn’t know.

  17. Hey Al . . . if my 401k shrinks any further, I’ll have to follow-up on that offer!!

    I had thought how great it would be to have a “reunion” of sorts of the band members from back then.
    Of course it would be great to jam, but it would also be a trip to just get reaquainted with a lot of old friends and to get aquainted with those we never really got to know.
    Although the logistics and scheduling would be a nightmare, the thought of a reunion gig blows my mind!
    I wonder how many of us still remember those songs from back then!

  18. “He (Ronnie Gibson) truly is a guitar genius. I know that when that guitar was in his hand, nothing mattered!”

    T R U T H ! ! ! !

    I remember seeing and hearing Ronnie first with a group called The Kent Five that played what seemed like every Saturday night at a place called the Community Building just outside Ashland, KY.
    He was so far beyond the other guys that it was a pleasure for me to see him finally playing in The Outcasts.
    And I do remember the time they played as the warm-up act for Neil Diamond. It was in Neil’s early days, just getting started on his own path to stardom, at the Paintsville High School gymnasium/auditorium during the local Apple Festival. He and his back-up band had their own stage set up at “mid-court” in the gymnasium with the Outcasts set up on the regular stage at the back. Even for a gymnasium, the sound was awesome!

    (That band that had the horns I played in was probably “The Latest News”. Ken Edmonds and Carl Hackney were in that one too.)

  19. Just wanted to say, that Ronnie Gibson is my uncle, what an awesome man! He was always there for me when I was growing up. He bought me my first car, and made me promise to make good grades and to not smoke…he-he! He still loved me even when I didn’t keep my end of the deal. He truly is a guitar genius. I know when that guitar was in his hand, nothing mattered!

    Thanks for always being that silent stability~even today.

  20. Hey BJ!

    Just finished reading your Jan. 19th comments on the Outcasts. Good to get a full perspective. I was good friends with Dick Hawkins and used to jam with him (I was about 12 and played drums)on my mom & dads back porch in Catlettsburg.

    I played drums with the Thunderbirds from about ’61 to ’63. I came after Haskell, but I had met him along the way! Just this past Saturday, I talked with Eddy Gabbard who stills lives in Ashland and with Bob VanHorn who now lives in Cincinnati. I live in Chicago. Larry Hollan our bass player died about twenty years ago from stomach cancer. After the Thunderbirds, I played about a year or so with the Mustangs (pre-”Kickin Mustangs”)and then joined with Dave Chinn and Teena Stephens from Ashland to form the Teena Stephens Trio. We traveled all around and did a lot of club and cocktail lounge work for a couple of years. Lots of fun and I got more into swing and jazz work.

    It’s good to hear that all of us in our various bands are still keeping in touch with each other. And, yes I do remember the Fugitives hearse! My best to you and yours. Dave Osborne

  21. Greetings to Al C., Ron G. and all the other musicians and fans from “our” era.

    This is Bill Hughes, one of the founding members of The Outcasts hoping to fill in a bit of the history of the band.

    The Outcasts were originally formed circa 1966 by:
    Ralph Morman – lead vocalist
    Ken Edmonds – lead guitar
    Bob Oliver – rhythm guitar
    Jay Smythe – drums
    Bill Hughes – bass guitar

    A later addition was Richard “Quincy Magoo” Hill – keyboards

    The actual details of how the group originally coalesced are lost in the mists of time to me, but I do recall how Ken and I used to sit on his front porch and try to cover some of the top-40 stuff being played at that time.

    I do remember with great clarity our first “gig”; we were invited to play at a birthday party. Somehow we managed to plug 3 guitars and one microphone into two small amplifiers. At the end of the party, we were each paid $5 . . . I can still recall the resounding phrase being uttered (I think it was Jay, our drummer),
    “Hey! We’re professionals now!”.

    With lots of practice and the addition of sound equipment, we were off to our first real gig of our career: The Westwood Boys Club!
    Ralph’s mother put together matching outfits for us of brown faux velvet slacks and vests and white shirts with lace sewn down the front and dyed a deep gold.
    I still remember the moment in our “dressing room” when we were supposed to start playing. Nobody wanted to be the first one out the door!
    We eventually overcame our intial bout of stage fright and continued playing for dances at the local high schools and other various teen functions in the tri-state area.
    One particular dance was when we played at a skating rink in Flatwoods, KY when we auditioned for Hal Scott, the area’s top booking agent. He was impressed enough with our show to sign us on and things really began to take off for us.
    Our “notoriety” spread farther as we played to a wider area and more prominent venues.

    Then, on our way to one of our bookings at a teen center in Hazard, KY, fate intervened. Our van with us and all of our equipment ran off the highway and into a ditch. I was thrown up into the upper right corner of the van and suffered a broken collarbone. Fortunately, everyone else was only shaken up and with the van and equipment surviving with only minor damage, were able to continue on to play that night in Hazard while I was taken immediately to a small rural hospital in Martin, KY.
    Later that evening, I was transported to St. Mary’s Hospital in Huntington, WV where I underwent surgery the next morning to repair my broken collarbone.
    Thus ended my playing days with The Outcasts. But they continued on to experience their metamorphosis into their next version of The Outcasts and, later, Appalachian Mainline.

    I later began playing again in various bands in the area and finally finishing my musical “career” beginning with Mike Murphy (deceased) (lead guitar/vocal), Denzil Smith (rhythm guitar/2nd lead), George (forgot the last name) (keyboard) and Jamie Haney (drums) in “Zachariah”. We later experienced our own metamorphosis into a three-piece group of Mike, Jamie and me which led to the last version of the group that I played in until late 1985 with Mike Murphy and drummer John Hall.
    Certainly not to steal any thunder from the latter Outcasts, I hope some of this helps fill in the “early years” of the group and might bring me back in touch with some of the thugs I’ve experienced along my musical pathway.

    Anybody remember The Fugitives and their equipment hearse?
    Also Little Archie and the Parliaments?
    One last mention: My cousin, Haskell Hughes, played piano in the early, early rock band The Thunderbirds.

    Somebody needs to chronicle all the great bands of our tri-state area!

    Thank you all for a unique and wonderful ride!!!

  22. And NO!
    I never smooched with Ralph, Al or anybody else in The Outcasts!!
    That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.

  23. Hi Bill. Why not? Just kidding… That was a great history!!! That version of the Outcasts was really cool!!! I remember seeing the band with horns!!! That was a great time. Thank you for filling in some of the history.

    1. Hi Al, I grew up in Ashland and graduated from high school in 1972. In 1973, I returned to Ashland for the summer from Bowling Green, KY where I attended Western KY. That summer I met Nick Wickware and had some great times. He was a very kind man, and he enrolled in Western KY that fall (1973). I don’t think he stayed the entire semester, but I know he lived in College Towers and was taking a full load of classes. I got to this website when I Googled his name and was so sad to hear of his passing. He was always a gentleman, considerate and unselfish. The world needs more Nicks. If you want to send any details, my email address is: hannbeloat@hotmail.com. Thanks for reading this. Hollis Beloat

  24. I found an additional, different picture of the Outcasts, I would not mind sharing with others. If someone wants to contact me I would let them borrow the pic to add to the website. Mike

  25. Accidentally ran across this site…I used to hang with Ralph & Barb and Nick on rare occasion, sorry to hear the news of Nick’s passing… another gone, another name on the list to toast around the New Years fire. I’m still in touch with some of the Huntington crew, Pat R. in particular (I receive news of Michael & Debby Mc through Pat). I’m cousin to Dick and Jane from Ironton, though I haven’t heard from either in a long time.

    I spent many, many of my youthful evenings listening to their music – thanks, fellows!

  26. I would love to see the other picture of the Outcasts. I do not have a web site I was friends with them many years ago. I also dated Ralph a short while while I was at Marshall University in 1968.
    Thank you,
    Patty Harmon

  27. I was in a band named Magnum with Ralph Morman as our lead singer. Pretty sure from the picture of the Outcasts that we are talking about the same Ralph Morman. Before Magnum, he ws with a band named Daddy Warbucks, then Magnum in the Wash D.C area and after Magnum broke up he played with The Joe Perry Project and Savoy Brown. All of us here in the Virginia/Maryland/DC area alway wonder how Ralph is doing. It would be great to do a re-union or just jam out. Hope Ralph is doing well. He was a killer singer. I still have live tapes from 1978 when we were the house band at the Keg on Wisconsin Ave. in Washington DC/Georgetown. They hold up to anything I see live today as far as local acts.

  28. Craig, yes this is the same Ralph Morman. I have his album when he was with Joe Perry…..I talked with him several years back and he was married and seemed happy…That’s all I know…You should try to get these tapes released!!!
    Patty

  29. Why don’t you release a new record!!! Have you played together at all lately??? I’d listen. I always loved this band…”The Outcasts”!

  30. This isn’t so much a comment about the Outcasts as it is a tribute to my friend Dick Hall (yes – he changed his last name as noted elsewhere here). Dick Hall and I worked together at Mack and Daves in Huntington and also spent about 6 months playing in a club band called The Music Department in late 1969 through the spring of 1970.
    Dick Hall is without a doubt one of the finest human beings I’ve ever had the honor to have known. His honesty, his candor and his gentle disposition made everyone who came into contact with him feel at home. His passion for music and all things musical were also noteworthy.
    I really miss Dick and wished he was still around – and I also wished that he would have achieved the notoriety and acclaim as a musician that he richly deserved.
    The Outcasts (with Dick playing his 8-string Hagstrom bass through two double 15 Ampegs) were something else. Everyone in that band was absolutely sensational and supremely talented, especially Ronnie Gibson and Al Collingsworth.

  31. Hi Mike, Thank you for the kind words. I would like to know more about the The Music Department band that Dick and you were in in 1969 – 1970.

  32. I have to agree with you that Dick Hall ,which is what I always knew him by, was one of the finest human beings that I ever knew also. He was the one who talked me into leaving the band I was already in and joining the Outcasts. If I remember correctly he wanted me to play rhythm or bass guitar but that idea didn’t last long. At that time I didn’t know any of the other guys in the band except for Carl Hackney who would later replace Dick. He was several years older than the rest of us and seemed to always be looking out for our best interest. I remember he would always make sure we got paid even if he had to make up some of the money himself. Dick was always the same friendly person through all the years that I knew him and it was really a sad day when Terry Lowe informed me that he had died I believe of a heart attack. Does anyone know what ever happened to his wife ? Anytime I ran into Dick over the years he would alway take time to have a long conversation with me with that same smile on his face and warm personality.
    I remember when Dick worked at Mack & Daves which I believe was all the years that I was in the Outcasts. I bought the first Marshall Plexi amp there and as far as I know it was the first and maybe the only one in the tri-state area for quite a while. That amp now would be worth at least 10 grand. I also bought the first Vox wah-wah pedal in the area there which turned out to be the same one Clapton and Henrix was using. If there was any new equpiment to come on the scene Mack & Daves seemed to have it and Dick made sure I got to try it out. I wish he was still around so we could play some music together again and I really miss him.

  33. It all comes back to me now.
    I remember our drummer, Jamie, calling him “Hazey-poo” all the time.
    He loved it . . . . NOT!
    Thanks ED the mental kick-start.
    Good to see you on the boards here.

  34. Howdy Jeff!
    I recall your name, but I can’t seem to nail you down . . . dain bramage y’know!

    I wonder where all that equipment is now or if it’s even still around.
    I know there’s an Ampeg B15N bass amp still in the tri-state area that I once owned.
    It originally belonged to Frog Johnson (Westwood, KY) and had the “Froggy” engraved nameplate that lit up when you turned it on.

    There was also a collection of Fender bass guitars that I sold to Larry Litteral.
    One in particular that I really hated to part with was my Fender Jazz bass.
    It was originally a standard clear brown fade that I refinished with black laquer and added a custom pick-guard that I cut from a Surfaris (Wipe-Out) album.

    Wow, there’s some treasure out there somewhere to a few of us grey-beards, eh?

  35. I don’t remember The Outcasts. But in Charleston WV There was a great heavy rock band named Heavy Rain. This bands members were Randall Wray on guitar, Ralph Mormon vocals, Tom Stamp bass, and Gordon Cupit on drums. The group I was in was called Black Orchid and we all hung around together talking and playing music. Ralph( or Ralphie) as Randall would call him was married to a beautiful raven haired beauty named Barbara. We called her Sweet Barb. Drop dead beauty. She did have a child I remember. It also comes to mind of there last gig in Huntington at The Ratskeller? Bar. Wrong spelling i’m sure. But things went kaput in a hurry as troubles in the band came to a head, with Randall and Gordon at odds over volume, A record deal on the table with ABC Bluesway, And Randalls ever scolding of Ralph over the treatment of Barbara. In fact, They had a song called Black Cat Woman that I know Randall wrote about Barbara. But awhile later I heard Ralph on the first Joe Perry Project album. He also worked with Savoy Brown. As of anything else, i’m clueless. Hope this helped. Great time for music in the tri-state area. Thanks for letting me remember. Robbinn Trowbridge, Rancho Mirage,CA

  36. I wanted let Dennis Snell know that the B side od Loving You Sometimes is on You Tube under The Outcasts. I played drums in a band from Westwood called Lather with Gary Kesling, Mike Fitzpatrick and Marc Cantrell. I recall seeing the Outcasts at the Boys Club in Catletsburg when I was 15. Seeing the ability of Terry Lowe on drums influenced my music career forever. My only goal at 15 was to someday be as good as he was….I never got there.

  37. Hey Al and Ronnie, I guess you guys are partially responsible for my early musical ambitions. When I first began playing around 74-75, my parents bought me, after many hours of begging and pleading, a nice Kustom PA from Terry Childers that had APPALACHIAN MAINLINE stenciled on the back of those big black roll and pleated speaker cabinets. WOW was I lucky. I’m probably the young buck on this site but I know every name and every band.

  38. Remember your great band from dances at the Greenup Youth Center, Ashland Armory, and all around the Tri-State area. Those were the days!
    Tom

  39. Just got a cd copy of Terry Lowe’s new band ‘Whipps’. I’m happy to know that Terry is still madly drumming away and has a real decent band.

  40. Hey Joey—wasn’ the Cryin’ Shame another band with similar guys in it. And I seem to recall a Zildjin unwinding at a gig at Coles—was that you? And a kid named Damron on bass? that’s way back!!!

  41. hi Bill!! I stumbled onto this site while looking for Jamie as he was a very good friend during the days of Zacharia. I also from time to time sat in on jams that I believe you were involved in, could that be so? I did alot of roadie work for the band and was at Jamie’s house on Prospect Ave. (with Maw Haney!) constantly back then. I was wondering if you had any info on the whereabouts of Jamie and even Denzil Smith as he too was a good friend at the time.
    I also would like to say that as a young musician at the time, Mainline was a major influence on my “career”, though I don’t play professionally anymore, I was involved in a couple of Ashland-based punk/new wave bands in the late ’70′s. The site brings back fond memories for myself even from childhood as I was a neighboor of Terry Sanders and clearly remember a jam session or two high on the hill on Hilton Ave. Also, Terry Childers was a close friend of mine’s brother-in law for a time and I got to know him as a nice bass player. Ashland had a lot of great talent then, Some of it should have really made—guess it’s just the right place/right time thing!!! Thanx again, everyone, for all the info–it’s really great!!!

  42. My brother, Carl Hackney, told me about this page…brings back memories…I moved away in 68′when he replaced Dick Hall on bass…He’s still writing and recording some great music…l was gone till the summer of 69…I believe then they had become “The Appachelation Mainline…Alfred, remember “Hastles Castles”?My memory is not so good anymore…I remember Carl being in a band(think it was his first band)Johnny and The Mystics…I believe Johnny Reffit, (changed his name to Hall, I think) played drums…Mike Blair sang…Anyway, all these great musicians made my life so much better, whether I was listening at thier band practice or at a gig…I like the pic on this page…my memory is’nt so good…but I do believe I remember Ronnie wearing that shirt…lol…was it red Ronnie? You were so cute! Hey I never kissed Ralph, but I gave him a big hug back in 2007 when I came home to Ashland to see my family…I did hate to hear about Dick…we did see each other back then..(I was 17 and he was 27)but I thought he was a sweetheart…I will never forget you guys and thanks. If any of you ever want to get in contact with me to just say hi and remember the good old days…it’s hrooker48@yahoo.com

  43. Hellen, actually the shirt was blue and I only wore it a couple of times. Trying to look “Mod” I guess. The guitar I was holding belonged to Dick. The guitar I always played was a Les Paul (SG) which I’ve had since I was 12 years old. Your memory can’t be very bad if you can remember Hastles Castles. I see your brother Carl every week or two. I have several recordings we’ve made over the last few years. I’ll tell him I saw your post on here.

  44. Hi Helen. It’s good to hear from you. Wow, Hassles Castles!!! One of many wonderful Peter Gallway songs originally recorded in 1966 by his group The Strangers!!! Truly one of the great American songwriters.

  45. Hey thanks you guys for giving me a comment back…my youngest son plays bass and keyboards…he has opened for Merle Haggard, The Dixie Chicks, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band,also played onstage with Lynnard Skynnard…his present band just came out with 2 CD’s…(not country…lol)sorry…just bragging on my child…I tried to find you two on Facebook…I am there and on tagged.com too…You know,having an Outcast Reunion is a great idea…let me know cause I wanna be there!

  46. First of all I would like to say hello to Al, Larry and all of the other great musicians from the Ashland area. I stumbled upon this site by accident & it brings back a lot of good memories.
    I was a kid about 13-14 when Dick started dating one of my sisters. He had just returned to the area from Seattle and was working as a fireman at Wright Patterson Air Base in Dayton. He lived with his grandmother in Cattletsburg & had always said he was the son of the late Country Star Hawkshaw Hawkins. If you look at pictures of Hawkshaw there is no denying the genes there! He would come home on weekends and visit my sister for hours & bring his guitars. I became fascinated with his instruments so he would leave them there for me to play till the next weekend. He had a Gibson Hummingbird and a Gibson ES-335 and a Silvertone transistor amp with 6-10in speakers. He drew some chord patterns for me & basically got me started playing music! I finally bought a $20 Stella guitar and one weekend he brought me a DeArmond acoutic pickup & small amp he purchased & now I was electric! Dick was like a big brother to me & when he and my sister split up I think I was more devasted than either of them. I remember before the Outcasts he had a group called That Bunch that played downtown at the Moonlight Garden. I remember Ray Siever on organ & Carl Hackney on bass/guitar. I remember Carl playing guitar on Devil with a Blue Dress/Good Golly Miss Molly & tearing it up! I eventually had my own “garage band” & we would always go to the armory dances to see the Outcasts…. not to dance but to marvel at the musicianship, not to mention the cool strobe light show & those huge Kustom Amps, & Dick using a Hagstrom 8string with two Ampegs was just too much! Those were good times! I eventually played with several bands & musicians in the area, the last of which was the Soul Expedition, before moving to Lexington in ’73. Not to sound like Esteban, but one of the greatests gifts is the gift of music… and I OWE my gift to Dick Hawkins!

  47. Does anyone remember who Mickie Jones played with. He was the bass player for the band Angel in the 70′s. I had heard that he played in the Outcasts at one time.

    1. Hi all of you Outcast fans !!! I am married to Ralph Morman, I have known him all of my life, we have been married for 27 years, we lived in Cape Canaveral ,Florida for a long time. He is a wonderful person and Carl Hackney comes by all of the time. We see Al too, every now and then. I married Ralph right after Dutch Courage a great band, that just couldn’t get a deal. Raph has a page that I made for him called in all caps MORM-USIC. So many fans on there, send a friend request to Debra Cox Morman, and I’ll sign you up! Ralph has been very ill, he had lung cancer, but had a successful lung reduction and is working on a jingle for a local business in Ashland, Ky. I am so thankful I was shown this website!!!…..Deb Morman

  48. Hello to all the former Outcast members (Once upon a time I was one). Hi especially to Bill, and Al. Al, I think it would be great to have a reunion of many of the guys that played in garage bands in our area from mid 60′s to early 70′s. I’ve discussed this with Terry Childers and he’s still active with “The Fugitives”. They played at our summer festival last year. We were thinking you would be the perfect one to try and get all of us back together.

    P.S.
    To all who are reading and curious, Al and I aren’t related but we are class mates.
    I might be able to provide a picture of us when we were in Miami, FL in 67. While there we changed our name to “The Latest News”.

  49. GREG! So great to hear from you again!
    Those days with The Outcasts, Latest News and all the other bands I’ve played in will always be my “glory days”. I remember hearing about you guys coming back home from Miami, FL and driving out to the outskirts of Grayson on I-64 to greet you on the way in. And staying up all hours of the night in Ken Edmond’s garage doing a “Latest News” paint job on Keith McComas’ van. I’m deffo up for a reunion of ANY type. It’d be great to have a bunch of us together again!

    Look me up on Facebook (isn’t that where most everybody is nowadays??).

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1006357675

  50. I remember so clearly those days at the Community Center (Kent 5) and that Gibson SG that you could MAKE TALK!
    I was always amazed at your 6-string prowess, that’s a fact.
    It’d be a pleasure to sit down and back you with some good ol’ 60′s style bass playing.
    Maybe some day, eh?
    Also remember Jerry Fowler . . . reminded me of a minature Mitch Ryder he did!

  51. This is great. All the Ashland area bands. I started with GC(Borst) and the Knight Riders which later became the Five Reasons and then the Dramatic Era. I went to the Avengers with Bill Hughes, Walter Hill, Homer Delawder, Mike Dingus Kenny Oliver( after Randy the Worm Lemaster) and Mike Meek. We later became a hard soul band adding Sammy Potter on bass, Harold(Tim) Pleasant vocals, Dan Mclemore guitar, Rodney Chapman trumpet, Steve Steel trombone and Dave Mcwhorter on drums. We later evolved to a Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, R & B band which later became known as just the Expedition. Were were under good ole Hal Scott also. We all took off to work or college and broke uo around 1971. I really think we could have gone somewhere, but we had to eat. Good to see Dan Mclemore on here. He could play Santana like nobody I ever heard from the area. He also did a great Steven Still ie OHIO. I have an old 8 track of the band recorded in the old Greenup high school band room. I am going to try to get it converted to a disc and maybe upload a song or two on here. And Ralph Mormon, he stole my girl friend, Leann Edison. Ha Ha.

  52. Those were some great days back then . . . I’ll always keep them near and dear!
    And, as I’ve heard, Ralph may have attracted a few boy friends too . . . but that’s just hearsay. :o)

  53. Lugging the equipment up and down those rickety stairs!
    But I loved playing there . . . the kids always gave The Outcasts a great reception.

  54. Hi, I was looking thru your site and was wondering if maybe you heard of a group of students of Marshall university ( called Marshall college then) that had a song something like “Rain-Rain-Rain-Rain”..or “the rain keeps pouring down” or something like that????..The key board player was a childhood friend of mine in wyoming county,wv.John Wilson..Thanks, Bill

  55. Hi Glenn! Wow.. great to hear from you! Thanks for the comps!! I always thought you were an amazing sax man & I hope you are still playing. We had some great times playing in the Expedition. I go back sometimes & listen to our old tape we made. We were getting really tight right before we broke up. It is a shame but life goes on. Sam Potter had an incredible voice for the music we did. I see Dave McWhorter from time to time here in Lexington & he still has the master tape. Where are you living now? We should get together for drinks sometime! Maybe we could put together an Expedition reunion jam sometime. I still remember some of the song list.

    Take care
    Dan

  56. The Outcasts were a great band. I remember hearing them practice outdoors over in Midland Heights. They were one of the best in the area. The great thing about being in a band in the mid to late ’60s is that there were plenty of opportunities to play. The band I was in, called The Aggregation, played the Westwood Boys Club, the Catlettsburg Community Center, the Greenup Community Center, etc. At Westwood, we were paid $35 a night — for all four of us! Later, we signed with Hal Scott and got some better paying gigs. It was a lot of fun.

  57. Bill,
    I also played with Arlie Wheeler (deceased) and the Montereys. We started the street dances in front of the Elks Lodge.
    My son-in-law is trying to prove that someone in our family was a Cherokee Indian. Vady, our grandmother, had strong Indian features. So if it’s true, it was either our great or great-great grandmother. If you have any information, please let me know.
    Best regards,
    Hack

  58. the Outcasts’ Plato 45 ‘Loving You Sometimes’ is currently for sale on ebay for $438…a testimony to their great music and 60s music in general…i heard your band live numerous times and enjoyed every song…killer versions of ‘Kentucky Woman” and Moby Grape songs to mention a couple…also happy to see the post from my old pla Glenn Sparks…i will try to get some info together to post about The Dramatic Era…myself,Scott Bryant,Mike Thompson,Craig Bonnington,Dan Wilson and Steve Waller…also will recommend the book ‘Band Boys’ to jog a few memories about the local music scene in the 1960s…george borst

  59. Ralph Morman is doing well and working on new music for release in 2011. His voice has deepened with age, but he’s still a great singer. You can find Ralph on Facebook now and watch for news on his upcoming music release!

  60. Haskell! Great to make contact with you after so many, many years!
    Sorry for the late reply, but I browse thru GarageHangover about once a month. I was pleasantly surprised to find your post here!
    Dad wasn’t much on relating the Hughes family history. Probably part of the reason was the hard life he was given during his youth and probably the possibility of having “mixed blood” in the family. All I have are photographs and True, Vady (our grandmother) does exhibit strong American Indian/Cherokee features. But even more, her mother (our great-grandmother) Francis “Frankie” Hughes bore even stronger features. I have photos of both and would love to share with you if do not already have them. Please contact me at bjhughes – at – wowway – dot – com and we’ll share the family heritage.
    I am also on facebook (who isn’t nowadays, aye?)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1006357675

  61. My husband, Anthony Cibarich’s father grew up playing music with Dick. He played under the name P.J. When Denny opend up the studio in Huntington, Dick sorta “ran the show”. I was a singer/songwriter at that time (not a very good one). Dick and Denny recorded several tracks, absolutely beautiful, for me. I was pregnant at the time with our oldest (adam, 17). Dick and his wife, Charlotte, and Denny treated us like we were the most important people in the world.
    In a very odd twist of fate. Dick’s friend (husband’s father, P.J.) passed away in Dec 1994, or 1995 (I forget at this moment). (dec. 8th). Dick was terribly upset. I remember speaking to him and feeling more sorry for his loss than my husbands. Dick passed away three weeks later.
    He and P.J. have probably got a nice combo act going on up there with Dick standing at the gates to invite everyone in to sit and enjoy the show.
    Dick was very happy when we sent pictures of our (then) two boys. Now we have four boys! I know that P.J. (Pat) and Dick look after us. Our Nicholas picked up the guitar at age 7.
    If anyone who knows them sees charlotte hawkins, please facebook or email her whereabouts (the address in ashland that I had doesn’t seem valid anymore). ccibarich@yahoo.com

  62. Hey Al,
    Just wanted to drop you a note since I saw this page today !!! OMFG !!! The Outcast were my favorite band back in the day ! I was your brother Larrys age and my first gig was a battles of the bands at putnam Jr.High school.Larry had borrowed your white falcon to use ! The group i was in really had shitty gear…lol, Needless to say larrys group beat us to death..haha I used to live over off of woodland road and would come over and sit at the old garage down from blairs market and listen to the outcsts practice ! Ya know I would not have ever takin up music if it had not been for the excitement you guys stirred up in me back then ! I just listened to “Lovin you sometimes” and I cried. Ralphs voice was soooo smooth back then. Thanks for all the great memories of back then !

  63. I think there were obviously some people that thought Ralph sang lead on Loving You Sometimes but in fact it was Al Collinsworth since he was the main writer of the song. Ralph sang lead on most of the other original songs we had. So I hope everyone knows now. Talk to you soon Al.

  64. I’m so happy to hear that Ralph is working on new music!!! I definitely want to add Ralph’s new material to my Ralph Morman library. Ralph is truly one of the great American Rock singers!!! Absolutely!!! I also understand how the voice changes with age (thank goodness). One can really tell the difference in the way I sang the lead on Lovin You and how my singing sounds now. Ralph, I love Ya!!! Can’t wait to hear the new material and maybe even add to it!!! Call me sometime. I’ll see you the next time I make it back to Ashland.

  65. Well, it looks like 2011 is just around the corner. It’s amazing that we’ve been reminiscing on this site since September 30, 2006 – 12:00am — more than 4 years!!!! So many good versions of the band!!! So many people involved in one way or another in the history!!! So many great bands all from one place and at the same time!!!! A genuine musical horizon from a blue collar, working-man area that obviously left a wonderful impression on us all.
    I’m pleased to have been a part of the Outcasts who recorded the 45rpm which documented all that hard work!!!! The recording seems to have a life of its own. Ralph went on to be a big part some really great bands and is now recording again!!!! I’m really looking forward to hearing Ralph’s recordings!!!! Every time I hear Ronnie play, his guitar playing is is absolutely stunning!!!! I’m sure a new Outcast recording is on the way. My “Counting Sheep (late at night)” attained semi-finalist in the “Song of the Year Contest”.
    http://www.songoftheyear.com/results/alcollinsworth.html.
    Everyone have a great holiday season. The best times are still trying to find us.

  66. This thread has been a lot of fun to read! I first heard “Loving You Sometimes” about a month ago, in a mixtape you can find here:

    http://www.maddecent.com/blog/mdwwr-62-diplo-chasing-the-dragon-mixtape

    Reading the comments of former band members and people on the scene is surreal, and even a bit elating. Connecting this fantastic music with human beings is pretty damn cool, especially since the music is now so different. Without this website, “Loving You Sometimes” would have remained the foreign artifact it seemed like at first: a perfect garage gem, crafted by a now-extinct race of supernaturally talented musicians.

  67. Oh my gosh, I just found this site and I love it!! I remember all of you so well and spent a good bit of time with you. I noticed Garnet had posted on here and wondered if it is the same Garnet that dated Ronnie way back then. Sure brings back memories.I think that you guys were the absolute Best in the area, but of course I was a bit prejudice and guess I still am. I was able to hear Terry play this past June in Ironton and he can still make those drums talk. Alfred,Ronnie, Carl it is great to see you on here and I would love to hear from you all.

  68. is currently in the studio laying down tracks for Ralph’s re-emergence onto the music scene later this year. And, as I’ve heard, live dates are being considered and negotiated altho no details have been released as yet. Keep your eyes and ears open kiddies, this is gonna be a juggernaut!

  69. The base player was Mavern Whithe and the drummers first name was Dan, I think his father was the Ashland city manager at that time.
    Dan

  70. Hey Ralph, Great-looking jammies you’re wearing in this photo….. oh no, on second look, it looks like I’m wearing them too….

  71. Hey Bill! How ya doin’? Debbie B’s cousin, Janie here. My husband, John Woods & I use to play with Frog Johnson back in the early 70′s. We haven’t heard from him in 40 yrs. You have any idea what has become of him? We would love to get in touch with him. If you or anyone else knows how to get in touch with him please let me know or give him my email address. It is: janiewoods510@gmail.com. Thanks.
    Janie

  72. Hey,Dave Osborne..did the Thunderbirds ever record and what were the song titles and what labels were they recorded on??? Can You give us a run-down on the group members in the band and when The Thunderbirds began as a band and when they disbanded?? Did they ever record in Chicago studios???

  73. I really hope the rumors (a new release of collected recordings) are true. This song has attained a cult-like following amongst music nerds and cool kids alike.

    That said, to all of you with copies of the original 45: you should rip the b-side to your computer! Give all of us with an earnest curiosity (and without $300 to drop on a single) a chance to hear it!

    As a sidenote, it’s awfully nice seeing all this reminiscing happening.. Makes me wish there had been a more active music scene in my hometown.

  74. Out of nowhere, it seems, I was fortunate to meet Ronnie Gibson at our local shop at Antiques’N’Uniques in Grayson, Kentucky! Within a few minutes of conversation about local musicians (I’m Coordinator of the Grayson Gallery & Art Center and we host unique live music at our art exhibits’ opening receptions). We found lots of people we knew in common – from musician Al Collinsworth to my cousins, singer-songwriter Mark Fosson and writer/director/film maker Allison Anders (a real fan of the Outcasts). All of us are from the Ashland, KY area (Ralph Mormon was our neighbor when I was a kid!) and it’s unreal how much artistic and musical talent comes from this region. Ron turned me on to this site – love it – and I’ll do what I can to spread the word! Now I’m on a mission to get Al and Ron together to play for us at the gallery in 2012…thanks!!

  75. I remember seeing the Outcasts play in the old train station in Catlettsburg. First time I ever saw a 12 string run through a Leslie…blew me clean away. I was born in Ashland, but my parents moved when I was a baby after Dad graduated from Marshall…I was at my Grandmother’s for vacation and caught the band. I moved back to Ashland and went into radio there…I was John Davidson at WAMX. I became friends with Nick Wickware, RIP, and one of his good friends, Leland Weiler, eventually became my brother-in-law (ex bil now…LOL). Ashland always had a good music scene…I knew met Carl Hackney and Terry Lowe and the Appalachian Mainline when I was at WAMX…can’t remember the keyboard player’s last name to save my butt…I think his first name was Jerry…wore glasses…Mainline was another great band…I worked with another good cover band, Toak. I fed them songs to work up…they were doing Uriah Heep, Edgar Winter, etc…Tom & Tony Williams and the rest of the guys…lost track of Jim Murnahan who played keys…anyway…just drifting along in the memory stream here ;)…Hi Al…never did get to meet you…I did meet Ralph several years down the road…as with most of the fans, wish you guys had recorded more!

  76. Funny…I promoted a show at the Keith-Albee Theater in Huntington…Blue Oyster Cult headlined…and before the first band played…I ran the movie…”Zachariah”….which had Joe Walsh and the James Gang, the New York Rock and Roll Ensemble, Doug Kershaw, and Country Joe & The Fish…by any chance did the band take their name from the movie? As far as I know, it was the only time it was ever shown in the area! :)

    1. Hello JD Stone or (as I knew you) John Davidson, I was at that Blue Oyster Cult concert at the Keith Albee, and I think I was lucky enough to have known you??? If you are the DJ I am recalling, I believe you dated my friend Robin Williams in the summer of 1973 and then you came to Western Kentucky University that fall with Nick Wickware? Does any of this sound familiar? I am Hollis Beloat and I attended WKU. I got to know you and Nick that summer through Robin and have only the fondest of memories of you and Nick. Nick was such a decent and caring man. I have lost track of everyone from that year. Robin came to Bowling Green and stayed until the end of 1974. I have not seen her since then. I would love to know what happened to Nick? He was a generous and giving soul. I hope you are well, old friend. I am teacher and living in North Carolina. My email is: hannbeloat@hotmail.com. I hope to hear from you. Sincerely, Hollis Beloat

  77. Just received information that Ralph has just recently been diagnosed with mesothelioma.
    I haven’t been able to verify this, but if this is correct, PLEASE offer you good energies toward Ralph and his wife Debra. Thank you.

  78. My old Ashland friend Grant McGuire and I have been talking about The Outcasts and other tri-state bands for the last week after re-discovering the garagehangover website. Keep the comments coming about the history, other bands,and any sources of recorded music. I have mentioned to Debbie Cox Morman that my lifetime love of music started with seeing these bands live.

  79. I have some really bad news. Ralph Morman is in the Ashland Hospice and apparently could pass away any day now. Carl Hackney, Terry Lowe and I went to see him Monday evening. It was hard to believe that so many years had passed since we were on stage together.
    On a lighter note there is a chance the Mainline may get together to play at Greenbo lake next August. I’ll post on here if we do.

    1. Well, here it is the first month of 2014 and it seems that Ralph still has some fight in him. He was released from hospice just before the new year but was admitted again then released again just recently this month. During my visit with him early in December, he said he has another album in him but he’s quite frail now and his voice is thin and weak, nothing like the Ralph that I remember. Still, I’ll always hold fondly my memories of the Mainline and The Outcasts. One of the greatest bands (if not THE greatest band) to come out of the Tri-State area. Looking forward to seeing the Mainline reunion!! Hope it happens!

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