Category Archives: US

Graves Discography

Here’s an incomplete listing of released recordings made at Alan Graves’ studio:

any help with this discography would be appreciated


Graves 1091 – Dominions – “I Need Her” / “Spanish Harlem”
Graves 1094 – Sires – “Don’t Look Now” / “Come to Me Baby”
Tork 1095 – Moguls – “Another Day” / “Round Randy” (Dec. 1966)
Graves 1099 – Ethics – “She’s a Deceiver” / “O.K.” (March 1967)
Graves 1100 – Fifth Row Bac – “Please Don’t Go” / “Destination Train”
Graves GRS 1102 – Smokey Metcalf And His Timber Toppers / “How Can You Love Me” / “Don’t Come Knocking At My Door”
Graves 1104 – Phantoms – “Hallucinogenic Odyssey” / “Sixty Minutes To Nine” (1967)
F-Empire 1106 – The Barber Green – “Gliding Ride” / “Life” (August 1968)


F-Empire (no #) – Beauregarde (features Beauregarde on vocals, Greg Sage lead guitar, Omar Bose keyboards and trumpet, Dave Kolpel bass, Allen Robinson congas and sax, and Jay Lundell on drums.)

The Moguls had two previous 45s: “Avalanche” / “Ghost Slalome” on Century 20449 in Phantoms Graves 45 Sixty Minutes to NineFeb. ’65, and “Ski Bum” / “Try Me” on Panorama 29 in March of 1966.

The Phantoms 45 on Graves lists the band members: Rudie Muller, Steve Reiter, Dennis Chu, Brian Ashbrough and Geoff Soentpiet. Rudie Muller sings lead on “Sixty Minutes to Nine”, Geoff Soentpiet sings lead on “Hallucinogenic Odyssey”. The Phantoms had an additional 45 on Ridon 859, “Story of a Rich Man” / “Our Great Society” both by Ashbrough and Soentpiet.

I asked Alan Graves about the bands that recorded in his studio in the 60’s and sent him a list of what I knew had been cut there:

The only record I can add is one done on the F-Empire label, GRS 1106, “Gliding Ride” and “Life” by the Barber Green.

There may be other “garage” bands, but most of the stuff I did was local schools, etc – some gospel and dixieland jazz band stuff.

None of the records pressed were released by me, but were the property of the individual bands -who either gave them away or sold them. Most were done in a limited press of 500 copies each. So if you have any of them, I guess you could say they are rare. Since the records were the property of the bands, I rarely kept any copies – and have none now.

I re-activated the studio by acquiring a Scully Mastering record cutting Lathe, and under the name of “The Audio Lathe” cut lots of “acetate” records for DJ’s and juke boxes.

I sold that last November, and now back to just hosting the History of the Presto Recording Corp on the internet.

Phantoms Graves 45 Hallucinogenic OdysseyPhantoms Ridon 45 Our Great Society

To right, the Phantoms’ second 45, recorded at Ridon by Rich Keefer Thank you to Barry Wickham for the scan. Thanks to Dale for pointing out the Smokey Metcalf.

The Current Records label

In 1964, John Fisher was president of Crusader Records, where he produced a sizeable hit, Terry Stafford’s “Suspicion”, the second release on the label, as well as a 45 by Johnny Fortune. A notice in Billboard on August 15, 1964 announced that Fisher departed Crusader suddenly, to be replaced by Harry Maselow.

The notice doesn’t say why Fisher left or his next plans, but within short order his name appears on the Current label, which I’ve read he owned. His name is on almost every Current single as producer.

Bob Moline’s “Forbidden” saw release on the Imperial label in September of ’64, but I’ve read a Current label version of it exists. If so, I’ve yet to see a copy – if anyone has it please send a good quality scan in.

Johnny Fortune (John Sudetta) was a fine guitarist with a number of surf recordings prior to his Current singles, first on Emmy Records out of Paul Buff’s Pal Studios in Cucamonga
(same label for Johnny Fisher’s own 45, “Tell Me Yes” / “Dream Tonight”). Johnny Fortune’s biggest was “Soul Surfer” on Park Ave Records, also produced by Fisher.

Johnny had three 45’s on Current. I’ve heard both sides of the first, the light pop songs “Say You Will” / “Come On and Love Me”. Better is the top side of Current 104, “Don Stole My Girl”. I haven’t heard the flip to that or his third 45, “I Am Lonely For You” / “I’ll Never Let You Go”.

Two other singers represented on the label include Carl Otis, who has what I believe is a soul 45, “Let It Be Me” / “Never Take Away My Love”, and Bobby Jameson, whose “All Alone” is a fine Stones-y r&b with harmonica, backed with the poppier “Your Sweet Lovin'” came out in early ’65, after his Talamo singles.

The Avengers were from Bakersfield, and are best known for their 45 on the Starburst label, “Be a Caveman”. Both sides of their Current 45 are also excellent, “Open Your Eyes” / “It’s Hard to Hide”. You can read the full story of the Avengers at Flower Bomb Songs.

I’m not sure how the Five of Us, a group from Tucson, Arizona wound up on a California label. For more on that band see the separate entry here.

The Tongues of Truth were really known as the Grodes and also came from Tucson. Manny Freiser of the Grodes had long-standing connections in L.A., first with Jerry Kasenetz who produced his first recording, “I Won’t Be There”. Kasenetz’s roommate Jerry Bruckheimer brought in a the Hustlers to work with Manny and they became the Grodes. Though the band made Tucson their base for live shows, they made further L.A. connections including the disc promoter Mike Borchetta, actor Cass Martin and KRLA DJ Emperor Bob Hudson.

Emperor Hudson had his own 45 on Current, also released on RPR records, the very demented “I’m Normal” (“I fill my bathtub with strawberry jam, and feed my squirrels sugar-cured ham and I spread rumors that Stalin is dead, has to do with wearing a sheepskin when he died in bed … made that up!”), The Emperor’s Friend may be Ron Landry.

For an interesting look at Bob Hudson check out George Lucas’ student film The Emperor:

The Tongues of Truth is of course, the Grodes, and “Let’s Talk About Girls” was the original version of the song later covered by the Chocolate Watchband. The Grodes fired their manager Dan Gates for changing their band name for the single. To add to John Fisher’s connection with the Impression label, the Grodes also issued a 45 on Impression, “What They Say About Love” / “Have Your Cake And Eat It Too” (anyone have a good scan of that 45?).

Current Records 45 discography (any help to make this complete would be appreciated)

Current 100 – Bob Moline “Forbidden” / “If I Were An Artist” (need a scan for this one, either side)
Current 101 – Johnny Fortune “Say You Will” / “Come On and Love Me”
Current 102 – Carl Otis “Let It Be Me” (E. James, Carl Otis for Lightswitch-Jinco BMI) / “Never Take Away My Love” C-1115 prod John Fisher
Current 103 – Bobby Jameson “All Alone” / “Your Sweet Lovin'” (Monarch press #54578/9, Oct. ’64)
Current 104 – Johnny Fortune “Don Stole My Girl” (J. Sudetta, Lightswitch/Algrace BMI) / “You Want Me to Be Your Baby” prod. J. Fisher (Feb. 1965)
Current 105 – Johnny Fortune “I Am Lonely For You” / “I’ll Never Let You Go”
Current 106 – ?
Current 107 – ?
Current 108 – ?
Current 109 – Avengers “Open Your Eyes” (G. Blake) / “It’s Hard to Hide” (G. Likens) both songs Lightswitch Music BMI, prod. by J. Fisher, distributed by Periphery Prods., Inc
Current 110 – Five of Us “Hey You” (L. Hucherson) / “Need Me Like I Need You” (July ’66)
Current 111 – The Emperor “I’m Normal” (Bob Hudson) / The Emperor’s Friends “The Crossing Game” (E. Mackinon), prod. by Fisher
Current 112 – The Tongues of Truth “Let’s Talk About Girls” / “You Can’t Come Back” both by Manny Freiser for Lightswitch Music BMI (prod by John Fisher, May 1966)

This is not to be confused with the Current label out of Nashville in the ’70s.

John Fisher may have also owned the Rally label – I’d like to know more about this, if true. It seems he went back into promotions, as a John Fisher was working for Atlantic Records in the early ’70s.

Johnny Fortune Current 45 Don Stole My GirlEmperor Current 45 I'm Normal

The Rally Records label

I can only find half a dozen releases to list for the Rally label. In the notes from the Bacchus Archives CD Let’s Talk About Girls! Music from Tucson Manny Freiser of the Grodes recalls John Fisher as a disc promotion man who owned the Rally and Current record labels. Current was likely Fisher’s, as his name is all over those labels as producer, but I can’t find Fisher’s name on any of Rally’s labels, instead there are other producers: Bob Todd, George Motola, Joe Saraceno, Tony Butala and Dan Gates.

Billy Quarles’ “Bringing Up What I’ve Done Wrong” was picked up by Columbia (as “Quit Bringing Up What I’ve Done Wrong”. The flip is listed as by Billy & the Ar-Kets and is an excellent r&b popcorn number.

Beverly Noble’s “Better Off Without You” is a Gold Star studio production, with string arrangements and Spector-like effects.

Hillary Hokum’s 45 is very pop and not my cup of tea. I believe this is Suzi Jane Hokum, it does sound like her.

The Agents were an obscure band from somewhere in the Los Angeles area. I don’t know who was in the group. I had a post on them up for years that received no comments, so maybe the name is a front for another band or studio group. “Gotta Help Me” is a stomping couple minutes of garage pop. The flip is a ballad, “Calling An Angel”.

Each side has its own set of producers and are very different in sound, I could doubt it’s the same group of musicians. “Gotta Help Me” was written by Richards, Todd, Markey and Shay, and produced by Markey and Todd. “Calling An Angel” was written by Johnny MacRae and Bob Todd, and produced by Todd and Tony Butala.

The Grodes’ “Love Is A Sad Song” / “I’ve Lost My Way” comes about mid-way in their discography. The flip is one of my favorite slower-tempo garage songs.

The Perpetual Motion Workshop single comes over a year after the previous Rally release, and possibly represents a different label altogether. In any case, it’s a great single.

Rally Records 45 discography
possibly incomplete – any help would be appreciated

Rally 501- Billy Quarles “Bringing Up What I’ve Done Wrong” (Lanny and Robert Duncan, Wrist Music BMI) / Billy & the Ar-Kets “Little Archie” (prod. by Joe Saraceno, arr. by Rene Hall)

Rally 502 – Beverly Noble “Better Off Without You” (George Motola – Ricky Page, Wrist-Rickland Music BMI)) / “Love of My Life” (G. Motola) – produced by Motola & Saraceno, arranged by Don Ralke

Rally 503 – Hillary Hokom (aka Suzi Jane Hokum) “Can’t Let You Go” / “Tears of Joy” (Lanny Duncan, R. Duncan, Tonto Music, BMI) Prod. by Tony Butala and Bob Todd

Rally 504 – The Agents “Gotta Help Me” / “Calling An Angel” (Oct. ’65)

Rally 505 – Grodes “Love Is a Sad Song” (M. Freiser, Lightswitch BMI) / “I’ve Lost My Way” (M. Freiser, Ramhorn Music BMI) (prod. by Dan Gates, May, 1966)

Rally 507 – The Senate – “Slippin’ And Slidin'” / “Merry-Go-Round” (prod. Bob Todd & Bob Duncan) (need confirmation of this one)

Rally 66506/7 – Perpetual Motion Workshop “Infiltrate Your Mind” (Simon Stokes, Fifth Avenue Music BMI) / “Won’t Come Down” (Dave Briggs, Cannon Music ASCAP) Prod. & arr. by Dave Briggs and Simon T. Stokes, Sept. ’67)

Likely an unrelated label:
Rally R-1601 – Rico & the Ravens – “Don’t You Know” (J. Foust, R. Martin) / “In My Heart”

Thank you to Max Waller for his contributions to this discography.

The Invicta Way

My fellow DJ on WGXC known as “The Magic Stranger” played this intriguing 45 for me, so I said I’d try to find out more about it.

The group seems to be The Invicta Way, and each side of the record has its own label name. Or maybe the label is The Invicta Way and different artists are listed at the top. “What Am I To Do” has an interesting keyboard sound – anyone know what instrument makes that exactly? This side lists Someone Else at the top.

“Things As They Should Be (Two Flowers Spreading Love)” has ‘Du Rango La Platz’ where the label name would usually go. I’m not sure what this refers to, but Durango is a city in La Plata County in southwest Colorado.

Teen Beat Mayhem lists the group as Someone Else with a possible Texas origin, but notes that this 45 has maybe the most ambiguous label on any ’60s single. Dead wax reads INVICTA 45-2301/2 BRS. However, both songs were written by McRay for Kery Pub, BMI which suggests only one group. Ron Kery was producer for both sides. Released circa 1968.

Update May 2015: Thank you to Country Paul for cleaning up the transfer of the song – if you heard it when I first posted in 2013, take another listen, it sounds much better now.

Amway Discography

Amway was the label of Alpo Music Productions of Sellersburg, Indiana, across the Ohio River and north of Louisville, Kentucky.

I haven’t heard the Torments or the Profiles yet, but the others are all excellent, if primitively recorded and performed.

The Torments came from northern Kentucky. The Classics came from Paintsville, Kentucky – for more on them see the separate post. The recordings were likely made in a backroom of a radio station or very basic studio in Louisville, KY or Jeffersonville, IN, and the tapes were sent to RCA’s custom service for pressing.

This discography may be incomplete – any help with info and scans would be appreciated!

The Octives – “Love” (Bob Burton, Bruno Music BMI) / Laughing At Me” SK4M-6174/5 (second half of 1965)

The Classics – “Trisha” / “I’m Hurtin'” (Garland, Titlow,& Donahue, Playridge Music BMI) (825M-4956, T4KM-4956, first half of 1966)

The Emotions – “Every Man” (John S. Hodge, Playridge, BMI) / “I Just Do It” (825M-4957, T4KM-4957/8, first half of 1966)

The Profiles – “If You Need Me” (Golden & Bateman) / “Please Come Back” (Marion Howard and Mike Howard, Playridge, BMI) 825M-5840, T4KM-5840/1, first half of 1966, Mel-O-Dee Entertainment, Inc.)

The Torments – “Lying to Me” (Buddy Perryman – Tim Feldman, Playridge Music, BMI) / “I Love You More Each Day” (824P-3715, TK4M-3715/6)

If anyone has photos or info on any of these bands please get in contact with me at chas_kit [at]

Sources include

The Yardleys

Recently I bought the Yardleys first 45 and found the band was listed as unknown in the liners to Lost Souls vol. 1, from Pine Bluff in Teen Beat Mayhem, and from Alabama in Gear Fab’s Psychedelic States CD series!

Billy Bob Thornton had his own garage band, the McCoveys, in his hometown of Malvern, Arkansas, about 40 miles southwest of Little Rock. He wrote about the Yardleys in his autobiography, The Billy Bob Tapes: A Cave Full of Ghosts:

The big band in my town was called the Yardleys … Steve Walker, Larry Byrd, Bo Jones, Bucky Griggs and Butch Allen. They had a Farfisa organ, bass, guitar, drums and Bo Jones played the trumpet. They played original songs and actually made a couple of 45s that were played regionally, but they may as well have been the fucking Rolling Stones or the Beatles as far as I was concerned.

The Yardleys used to have these street dances and they would rope off the main Dollar Store and Safeway parking lots. It cost fifty cents or a dollar to come inside the rope and dance in front of the band … Most of my days in junior high and high school were spent trying to figure out how you get chicks that looked good, and just standing there watching these bands like the Cadets, LSD and the Illusions, the Senates, the Yardleys and the Beethovens.

The Yardleys were playing a cover of “Cold Sweat” by James Brown. Steve Walker, the guitar player, landed on a nail on the wooden stage during his guitar solo. When he got back up, his pants were ripped and he had this bloody knew but he just kept playing …

In 1966 the Yardleys released their first 45 on the Foundation label, the top side featuring the subdued original by Bucky Griggs and Larry Byrd “Come What May”, backed with Butch Allen’s excellent and upbeat “The Light Won’t Shine”. Both songs published by High Fidelity Oleta, BMI, which also published the Lost Souls on Leopard.

Butch Allen wrote both songs on their second 45 from January, 1967 on their own Yardley label, the very Stones-inspired “Your Love” backed with the gentle “Just Remember”, both songs published by Quinvy, BMI.

Yardleys Poster

Joan H. sent in this poster of the group that was posted to a website about Malvern.
She writes:

Standing on left is Bucky Griggs, on right Larry Byrd, seated on left is Butch Allen and right Steve Walker. Although Billy Bob is correct, Bo Jones did play in the band, it was not for the full time and he was added at some point. Don Hicks was the photographer but he has not been in business in the Malvern area for a very long time. The bench Steve Walker rests against was used in many of the photographs for local brides.

If anyone has a better photo of the poster or other photos of the Yardleys or other groups in that area, please contact me.

Thank you to Joan for forwarding the photo.


Rev Records discography

Gil Shelton, Rev A-1003 "I Was Wrong from the Start"

Rev has one of my favorite singles, “Glimmer Sunshine” by Jack Bedient & the Chessmen.

The Tommy Love and Lonnie & the Legends are the only picture sleeves I know of for Rev.

The label’s location is usually noted at 12044 Chandler Blvd, N. Hollywood, CA, but the Tommy Gardner 45 gives an address of 12055 Burbank Boulevard. No relation to the Rev label from Arizona in the late ’50s that had releases by Doug Hardin, Skip & Flip, etc.

I’ve put these in possible order of release – but it’s only a guess.

This discography is probably incomplete – any help with dates, info and scans would be appreciated!

Rev 45-D-100/45-D-101 – “Wish You Were Still Mine” (Don R. McGinnis, Loucan Music BMI) / “Devil in Me” (J. Bryant for Mosic Publ., BMI) both sides arranged by Don McGinnis

Rev A1001 – Tommy Love – “Love Bug Is Buggin’ Me” / “Your Heart Is Like a Swingin’ Gate” (W.V. Thrasher, arranged by Bruce Locke)

Rev A-1003 – Gil Shelton – “I Was Wrong from the Start” (Joe Fiorito, Laucan Music BMI) / “A Penny in the Wishing Well” (with picture sleeve)

Rev 45-1005 / 45-1006 – Lonnie & the Legends – “Penguin Walk” / “Crazy Penguin” (George Grah, Laucan Music BMI, with picture sleeve)

Lonnie & the Legends had at least three 45s on various labels, I cover that band in more depth here.

Tacey Robbins & the Vendells, Rev 45-R-1102 "My L.A."Group Therapy Rev 45-D-166, Seventh Heaven

Rev 45-R-1102 – Tacey Robbins and the Vendells – “My L.A.” / “Ordinary Boy” (both by Billy Storm, “Sound Track Motion Picture ‘Psycho a GoGo'”, arranged by Don McGinnis, Produced by Al Adamson, Laucan Music, BMI

Rev 45-D-166/45-D-266 – Group Therapy – “Seventh Heaven” (Tom Jones, Bill Doran) / “Cheated Again” (Bob Pecel) (both sides arranged by Bill Doran, March 1966)

Rev 45-D-104-66 / 105-66 – Jack Bedient & the Chessmen – “Glimmer Sunshine” / “Where Did She Go” (October 1966)

Rev 45-N-105 – Nocturnals – “Stag Line” (Don Freeze) / “I Want To Know”

Rev 45-R-107 – Jay Jay Cameron with King David & the Parables – “Short Dresses” (Jay Jay Cameron – Barry Hansen) / “Miss Missile”

Rev 45-G-112 – Doug McGinnis – “Moon Over Texas” / “Everything But Me”

Rev 45-115-67/116-67 – The Royal Teens – “Chicaney” (Chirico-Whittle, Laucan Pub, BMI) / “Tears in My Eyes” (Monarch #66743, May ’67, band included Sam Chirico who later formed “The Paper Fortress”)

Rev 45-117-67/118-67 – Nona Nikova – “Dreams Are Not Enough” (Sam Carrino) / “Let The Sun Shine” (Nona Nikova), both pub. by Laucan BMI, arr. by Sam Carrino

Rev 45-117-68/118-68 – Leo & Marv – “Mrs Heartbreaker ” / “House of Lonely Hearts”

Rev 45-119-68/120-68 – Real People – “Sea Of Reality” / “The Man” (both by Parks, Alan, 1968)

Rev 200-69 – Art Wight – “Pickin’ Fights for Christmas” (Art Wight, Laucan Music BMI) / “Three Cigarettes”
Rev 200-69 – Cousin Frank – “Pickin’ Fights for Christmas” (Art Wight, Wight Barn ASCAP) / “Three Cigarettes”
The above two seem to be identical releases except for the artist name and publishing info. Not sure why there were two releases under different names. Country music.

Rev-3028/9 King George and the Timps – “I’m Thru Losin’ You” (Howard Huntsberry, Launcan BMI) / “I Cried” (George Renfro)
Also released on Midtown M-002, “I’m Through Losin’ You” (credit changed to E.B. Robertson) / “I Cried”. Rev issue seems to be rarer.

Rev-3528 King George and Mischief Lads – “Shing-a-Ling Baby part 1” / “Shing a Ling Baby part 2” (both by George Renfro)
“part 2 is particularly insane” – Mr. Robinson

Rev 4003 – Los Chicanos – “Love Is Blue” / “La Bamba”

Rev 500 – Darvy Traylor (arr. LaBerta Ellis) – “Won’t You Come Home Bill Bailey” / “That’s All That Matters To Me” (1974)

Rev-5001 – L.A. County C.O.P.E. – “Sacramento Playhouse” (Cheep Music, ASCAP, 4:00) / “Stand Up You Children”

COPE = Commitee on Political Education? Seems to be some riff on Nixon – anyone have clips of this or a good scan of the b-side?

Rev 7001 – Al Hanner “Beyond the Reef” / “Who’s Sorry Now” (need confirmation of this one – label scans please)

Rev-8107 – Tommy Gardner & His Versatiles – “Why” / “That Kind of Love” (both by Tommy Gardner, Mayon Pub ASCAP)
This label gives Rev Records address as 12055 Burbank Blvd.

Rev 1722 – The Seaweeds “You Swam Away With My Heart” (Vocal)/”You Swam Away With My Heart” (instrumental)
Red label with Rev in plain typeface

Rev-1941 – Danny Ghaffouri “X-Rated Baby” / “The Lady” both sides by Danny Ghaffouri, prod. and arr. by Bruce Graham, green label with Rev logo

Rev 1951 – Tony De Bruno “Io Canto Cosi Perche Sono Italiano” / “Ah! Cie Bella La Barese”

Rev 1952 – Danny Curtis “Windbag” (D. Curtis & Tom Jenkins for Charted Course Music – Dag Music, BMI) b/w Greg Biela “Flyaway” (Tom Jenkins) Produced by Tom Jenkins for Breakaway Productions, Stereo, tan label with Rev logo. 6430 Sunset Blvd. address.

Rev 1960 – Dave Duncan And Hardtimes – “Sweet Country Lovin'” / “My Hearts In Country” (need confirmation of this one)

Thanks to Ed Nadorozny for the scan of the Gil Shelton 45, to Max Waller for info and the scans of the Royal Teens and to Mr. Robinson, beccabear, Laurent and the rest of G45 Central for their help. Thank you to Barry Wickham for the scan of the Lonnie & the Legends sleeve and Group Therapy 45.

Sacramento Playhouse, Rev 45

The Two Sides of Gil Shelton, Rev picture sleeve

Afton Records discography

Afton Records, owned by Milt Salstone of M-S Distributing. Vic Parnel gets production credit on some of these.

Probably incomplete – any help with this discography would be appreciated.

Afton 1700 – The Strangers – “This Brave New World” (Bob Rubin) / “In the Beginning”
A-side is a top surf instrumental, flip is blander

Afton 1701 – Five Bucks – “No Use in Trying” / “Now You’re Gone” (April 1966)
first press omits label # and lists b-side as “Now You’re Mine”

Afton 1702 – Gnomes – “The Sky Is Falling” / “Something’s Going Wrong” (both by Carpenter Sullivan)
great ballad backed by first-rate garage. Produced by Vic Faraci. Anyone know this group?

Afton 1703 – Sound Carnival – “I Wish I Could Tell You” / “Dreams” (both songs by Stock, Siegel, VicMil Music BMI, September, 1967)
band from Morton Grove, Illinois

Afton 1704 – Donnie Sanders & the Don Juans with Scherri St. James – “Make a Happy Home” (D. Sanders, Vicmil Music BMI / “Shing-a-Ling Baby”

I don’t believe there is a connection to the Afton label that released Frank Pizani’s “Steady Cha Cha” / “The Stars Will Remember” (Afton 617, Pino Music Co., U 1703) in 1959. There are other Afton labels not connected to this one.

For more on the Five Bucks see my article on this site.

I could use good scans of the Strangers, Sound Carnival and the Donnie Sanders 45s, plus sound files of the Strangers and Donnie Sanders if anyone have them.