Category Archives: Milwaukee

Dee Robb and the Robbins (the Robbs)

Dee Robb and the Robbins Score 45 Say That ThingI picked up Dee Robb & the Robbins’ “Say That Thing” not realizing this was the Robbs in an earlier incarnation. This 1964 Score single is much different from the sound of their Mercury singles and LP from a couple years later.

Early versions of the group included:

Dee Robb (David Donaldson) – guitar & vocals
Joe Robb (George Donaldson) – saxophone, bass guitar & vocals
Bruce Robb (Robert Donaldson) – keyboards & vocals
Dick Gonia – rhythm guitar
Craig Krampf – drums

They released three singles before their stint with Mercury. First came Dee Robb’s “Bye Bye Baby” / “The Prom” on Argo 5439 from 1963. Later that year as Robby and the Robbins they cut “Surfer’s Life”, a song written by Dee Robb with the group’s manager, Con Merten, b/w “She Cried” on Todd 45-1089. “Say That Thing” seems to be from 1964, judging by the Score release number.

“Say That Thing” sounds much like “What’d I Say” and has great lead guitar in Lonnie Mack’s style. The flip is a rocked-up version of “He’s Got the Whole World in His Hands”.

Lenny LaCour’s Score label also put out a couple singles by the Texas/Chicago band the Bossmen, plus Oscar Hamod and His Majestics’ cool “Come On Willie” / “Top Eliminator.”

Dee Robb and the Robbins Score 45 He's Got The Whole World In His Hands

Interview with Eric Olson of the Next Five

Next Five Promotional Photo
The Next Five promotional photo

Tyler Tincknell (TT) – Interviewer

Eric Olson (EO) – Participant, lead vocalist and songwriter for the Next Five.

TT: How did you first get involved in music? Was the Next Five your first band?

Eric Olson in the early days of the Next Five when he still played guitar
Eric Olson in the early days of the Next Five when he still played guitar
EO: Music was always around me when I was growing up, my mother played the piano and when my parents had party’s they would all stand around the piano and sing, there was always a radio playing somewhere and music just sank into me as if it where a part of life. I always sang songs when I was a kid, changing lyrics intentionally or unintentionally, but saying to myself “well that fits too”. The first time I was with a band was in my garage with some kids from the neighborhood, by the time I was 13 I already knew I wanted to sing in band and hang out with the cool kids. I joined my first organized band when I turned 15, “The Variations” they were playing social centers and park pavilions for $20 a gig. The first gig I did was in early 1965 at View Street School social center on the lower south side of Milwaukee, I made $5 to play 2 sets. By the spring of ’66 I had a vision of what kind of band I wanted to be in. I started putting a band together and remembered a guitar player from Brookfield, Wisc. (Steve Thomas) who played in a band with a mutual friend and I got in touch with him and told him what I wanted to do. After our meeting he said “Ok, I listened to what you would like to do, now come and hear my 4 piece band that I already have, and we’re looking for a singer”. I did, and that was the beginning of the “Next Five”.

TT: Garage bands began popping up all over the country in the mid-1960s for various reasons. What motivated you to be a part of the Next Five?

EO: My motivation to join the 4 piece band Steve already had was we were on the same page as to what we wanted to do, there was absolutely no question in my mind that this was the band I was looking for and they felt the same way about me joining them. Of coarse I had to wrestle our drummer (Tom “Ashbolt” Stewart) out in Steve’s back yard to prove my worthiness. We were an extremely tight group of guy’s back in the early day’s, not just musically but we were all close friends instantly. I spent the summer of ’66 practically living at Steve’s in Brookfield because I was from the south side of Milwaukee and that was a little distance away. I’ve always believed because we were so young we developed and grew together as one, and that was the magic of the “Next Five”.

TT: Wisconsin is not the first state people looked to as a “hot-bed” for garage music, but it actually produced some noteworthy groups like the Blues Boys, the Delcords, and, of course, the Next Five. What was the music scene like and did any local bands influence the Next Five’s style?

EO: There were a lot of bands locally just on the south side of Milwaukee alone, before I was even in a band I saw the “Savoy’s”, “El Demerons”, “Road Runners” and the “Legends” who I never met or saw but they had an album out called “Run To The Movies” with songs like “Lariat” and “Say Mama”, they were the generation before me and pre- Beatles and had a big influence on me. The first live act I ever saw was not a rock band, it was Concertina Millie at Mitchell Park in the very early 60’s, the energy level of that act blew me away, I was probably 11 years old at the time. When I joined the “Next Five” the influences had changed due to the British invasion.

TT: Speaking of the British Invasion, which band would you say was the Next Five’s main influence?

EO: I don’t think there was any one British band that influenced us, everyone in the band had their own personal influences, we were always trying to stay current and looked for songs that fit the band and had lots of vocals. Everybody was influenced by the Stone’s and Beatles, but we would only do one song by any given artist at a time. In those day’s we only did two 45 minute shows at every gig, 12 songs a set, 24 songs a night, always new songs coming in and old songs going out, most songs would last a month or maybe two. There were some songs that were album cuts and we could hang on to those a little longer. The DJ’S at WOKY and WRIT would give us a heads up on what was coming out so we could get a jump on the new stuff.

Next Five appearing with Herman's Hermits and the Robbs, August 1, 1968
Next Five appearing with Herman’s Hermits and the Robbs, August 1, 1968

TT: What type of venues did the band perform at? What were some of the songs that would usually be featured?

EO: We played at high schools, proms, post proms, regular dances, colleges, teen centers, fairs and festivals, radio station events and a lot of CYO dances. Our manager Con Merten kept us booked solidly for three years straight. I remember going to children’s hospitals during Christmas to sing Christmas songs to kids. We did tv shows in Milwaukee, Chicago, Ohio. We did concerts with groups like the Rascals, Herman’s Hermits, shows with groups like Tommy James and the Shondells, the Royal Guardsmen, American Breed, Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, Moby Grape and many shows with Chicago bands like the New Colony Six, Shadows of Night and the Cryin’ Shames. In 1968 the first Milwaukee Summerfest was born and was produced by our manager (Con Merten) and Dee Robb from Wisconsin’s most successful rock band The Robbs, who Con also managed, that was a very memorable event. We would always do our own songs of coarse, but throughout the years we did songs like “Conquistador” Procol Harum, “Kids Are Alright” Who, “Hey Grandma” Moby Grape, “Rock and Roll Woman” Buffalo Springfield, “Black is Black” Los Bravos, “Saint Stephen” Grateful Dead, “Dear Mr. Fantasy” Kooper- Bloomfield and all the current hits at the time by groups like The Rascals, Hollies, Bee Gees, and even more poppy stuff by The Turtles and Lovin Spoonful.

TT: Talking with different artists, I find some tend to believe their greatest strength was found in their live performances. Would you say that was true about your band?

EO: Recording was always fun, but on live gigs you had an audience that fed you with energy. Kids would be jammed up in front of the stage and would rock out with the band and there is nothing that could compare to that. Doing TV shows was a sterile and technical environment where people just made sure your hair was in place, but by the end of a live gig your hair would be soaking wet and the sweat would be dripping down your face and you would be hyped up with adrenaline. I would have to agree with the other artists that there is nothing like live performances.

TT: I take it from the band’s discography, you were the main songwriter. What went into your composing process and was it a relatively easy task?

Next Five Destination 45 He Stole My Love
Eric Olson’s first released original, on Destination Records
EO: Our first recording was “Little Black Egg”, a friend of the band and local DJ Paul Christy from WOKY Milw. brought the song to one of our rehearsals and ask if we would consider recording it. It was first done by a Florida group called The Nightcrawlers in 1965 who had some success with it regionally in the south. Paul asked if we could write a B-side for it and we said sure, even though none of us had ever written a song before. I can’t remember if there were any other submissions by members of the band but we ended up doing a song I brought to rehearsal called “He Stole My Love”, I had the guitar line, chords, lyrics and melody and it was quite a dark song. I think I made up the story line from an old tv show or movie I saw. Being it was the first song I ever wrote I really just guessed at how to go about it. Paul said it was good enough for the B-side but suggested that the next time I write a song, I might want to think a little more commercial. “He Stole My Love” can be found on vinyl compilation albums Mindrocker Vol.3 1981 Germany, and Mindrocker The Complete Series Vol. 1-13 Anthology of 60 US Punk Garage Psych 1986 Germany, Wisconsin Rocks Volume 7, and numerous bootleg albums that come and go on the internet.

Next Five in WRIT's survey for March 11, 1968
Next Five in WRIT’s survey for March 11, 1968
The next song we recorded was “Mama Said”, a Shirelles song from 1961, Paul Christy wanted us to do “Romeo And Juliet” a song done by the Reflections in 1964. We decided on “Mama Said” because it felt right for us. Once again we needed a B-side and it wasn’t until the night before the recording session did I attempt to come up with something. This time I used a piano and immediately came up with the line for “Talk To Me Girl”, I found the chord structure, melody, and most of the lyrics, I finished the lyrics the next day driving to the session. After recording “Mama Said” we had 45 minutes to record “Talk To Me Girl”, nobody in the band had any idea of how the song went, but that was the magic of that song. I played the piano and Mark played the Hammond organ and everyone just played the first thing that came to their minds, there was no time to sit back and evaluate what we were doing, that was the fastest song recorded of any song I’ve written to date, and the spontaneity of it is why the song turned out the way it did. If we had time to try to make it better, it probably wouldn’t have sounded like that. Before we signed with Jubilee Records we recorded in different studios, and “What’s That Melody” a song I wrote and we recorded in Appleton Wisc. (I think) was used for the flip side of “Sunny Sunny Feeling” I don’t remember to much about that session but the song was never one of my favorites, “Sunny Sunny Feeling” was recorded in Chicago at Chess Studio’s. There was never one method to the way we did the original recordings, but if we had to pick one I’m sure it would be the way we did “Talk To Me Girl”.

TT: I noticed all of your songs were featured on the B-side. Was there a reason for this or was it a coincidence?

Next Five Canadian issue of "Talk to Me Girl" on Wand
Canadian issue of “Talk to Me Girl” on Wand
EO: Every time I’ve written a song I’ve tried to write an A-side, that wasn’t easy back then when you consider the competition of the day. I do remember when Paul Christy got the first DJ copies of “Mama Said” and “Talk To Me Girl”, he invited us over to his house to hear them. He first played “Mama Said” and it was pretty much how we remembered it because we had rehearsed it before we recorded it, and we played it live on the gigs after that. Nobody knew how “Talk To Me Girl” was going to sound because we had forgotten how it even went, we never did it after we recorded it. After he played it he said “this is pretty close to an A-side” and one night while doing a late show he called me and said he was going to play it on the radio even though he wasn’t suppose to because of the stations policy of just playing the top 40 hits. He played it at about 1:00 am in the morning and it sounded even better on the radio. That was probably the closest I got to an A-side in those day’s.

TT: How would you describe the Next Five’s sound? How would you say the group’s sound matured over time?

EO: Like most teenage bands back then we did cover material in the beginning, and we did that better than most bands because that’s what got us off the ground and got our manager (Con Merten) and our producer (Paul Christy) interested in us. We not only developed musically but also our presentation matured very quickly because of constant live performances. But for me anyway, the essence of the “Next Five” came out on the recording of “Talk To Me Girl”, that was the real us, un-scrutinized, spontaneous, and no input from outside sources.

TT: I noticed you shared the bill with some very successful acts. What was your most memorable gig?

EO: I would have to say that very early on everyone in the band liked the Rascals, their still one of my favorite 60’s groups. So when Con Merten (our manager) informed us we would be opening up for them at the Milwaukee Auditorium along with the Robb’s who were also managed by Con, that was a big step forward for us. I can remember standing just feet away from drummer Dino Danelli while he was doing the show, the guy was incredible, the whole band was incredible. That has always stuck in my mind as one of the most memorable gigs we did with a major act.

TT: Although you hinted at it, could you elaborate further on how the Next Five secured a record deal?

EO: Our first record deal was with Destination USA Records out of Chicago, that was for “Little Black Egg” and “He Stole My Love”. They always wanted to meet someone in the band to make sure there was a band and not just a recording. I remember driving to Chicago with Paul Christy to have lunch with Bobby Monaco who worked with a lot of Chicago bands at that time and later discovered Rufus with Chaka Khan. Ironically, ten years later in the late 70’s I ran into him at the Roosevelt Hotel in Hollywood where he was the guest speaker at the song writers showcase I was attending, we spoke for a few minutes and I never saw him after that. Just before we signed our second deal with Wand Records out of New York for “Mama Said” and “Talk To Me Girl” they send a representative to Milwaukee to meet the whole band, unfortunately I cannot remember his name. We went downtown to a hotel where he was staying and actually had to sing for him in his room. We just brought a guitar and did the vocals for “Mama Said”, afterword he was convinced we were a band and we got the deal. Our third record deal was with Jubilee Records also out of New York for “Sunny Sunny Feeling” and “What’s That Melody” [released as by the Toy Factory], the representative was Steve Wax who was the national promotion rep. for Jubilee. We never did meet with him because he already knew we were an established band. However, I did talk to him many times on the phone regarding release date and distribution. As far as making the deals, the band never had much input, Paul took care of all the deal making that went on with all three of the record company’s we were signed to. Paul always seemed to do one shot deals in case one of the songs were to really take off, then he would be able to make a new and better deal. Back then all this information was hush, hush, we weren’t suppose to talk about any of this stuff, being all this happened a half century ago I think it’s ok now to discuss it.

TT: Were the band’s vocal harmonies well-rehearsed? I was intrigued with how well they flow with the lead vocals on “Little Black Egg”.

EO: Most of the time we would just have a guitar or use the organ and sing at rehearsals, it went without saying that everyone would know their musical parts. We were a vocal band on most of the material, some of the songs had maybe just a few other vocal parts, but if the vocals were tight the band was tight. After awhile, everyone seemed to know what part they would be singing.

TT: The Wand single sounds much more classical than most garage bands of the day. Did the Left Banke influence the band at all or was “Talk to Me Girl” a part of the Next Five’s own experimentation?

EO: The Left Banke was an excellent band, great harmonies, but we weren’t thinking of any other bands when we recorded “Talk To Me Girl”. Basically we weren’t thinking much of anything other than getting the song recorded in that 45 minutes left in the session. But again, that was the magic of that song, no time to think, just do. Spontaneity was the trick, I learned whatever you come up with first, it’s usually the best thing. Since then, I’ve found that you can try to keep finding different parts for a song and you end up going back to your first thought.

TT: You mentioned “Talk to Me Girl” is the best representation of the group’s sound. Where you guys given more studio freedom, and, if so, why was this the case?

EO: Back in the 60’s most producers didn’t really care what went on the B-side, the money was on the A-side. Being every Vinyl 45 had to have a B-side, most bands were just asked to put something together. Even on vinyl albums where there were usually 12 songs there was a lot of filler stuff, one or two songs would get featured and the rest barely got noticed. There were some exceptions to that rule on singles and albums, but not many. The B-sides were a place the bands could express themselves without much scrutiny from the record company or the producer, the only thing you needed to watch out for is that it was socially acceptable and none offensive.

TT: For all three singles, the Next Five also had three different record labels. Did this affect the group in any way or was that just a part of the business to you?

EO: All the record deals were pretty much just part of the business for us, we left everything up to Paul Christy and we trusted his decisions. Of coarse every band wanted to be signed to a major national label but that didn’t always happen. We were happy to be signed with Destination USA records out of Chicago for our first deal, it was a strong regional label that kick started many bands from the Midwest. From that, Paul was able to put together deals with Wand and Jubilee Records out of New York where at that time the music industry was centered.

TT: Did the records sell well? Which single was the most commercially successful?

EO: We were getting a good amount of airplay in Milwaukee from WOKY and WRIT and knew we were also getting it from smaller stations around the Midwest, and we found them on Jukeboxes. I don’t know exactly how many records were sold, we were never given that information. I did get royalties for writing the B-sides very early on, however I never received any for the “Mindrocker or the Pebbles albums. I would have to say “Mama Said” was our most successful record at the time. but it was the compilation albums that introduced “Talk To Me Girl” and “He Stole My Love” back in the 80’s.

Next Five Stereo Sonic Recording demo Not Fade Away
Next Five Stereo Sonic Recording demo Not Fade Away
TT: Did the band record any songs which have not been released?

EO: Yes, I have 3 acetates of 2 songs I wrote and our version of “Not Fade Away” . I haven’t heard those for a number of years now but I remember the quality was pretty bad, it was almost 50 years ago those acetates were made.

TT: Did the band have a chance to perform while in New York or in any other state for that matter?

EO: The whole band went down to Virginia to play some gigs because Paul our producer had moved down there, while Con our manager decided to move to New York to open an office with Denny Randell who was a song writer, producer and had co-written some of the early Four Seasons hits. I went to New York in Jan. ’69 to meet with them, the bottom line was the band would have to move to New York. While contemplating weather to relocate or not, Con and Denny had a falling out and Con moved to Los Angeles.

TT: Is it possible that the unreleased songs will be avaliable either online or on a compilation album?

EO: Probably not, the quality of those acetates are pretty bad and there’s not much that could be done to make them any better. Having said that, I just realized I was never in possession of the 8 track master tapes that were left at these studio’s, and neither was Paul Christy. I remember sometime in ’68 Paul Christy called us and asked if we would go to Chicago and record at a new studio that just went 8 track and they needed a band to get the bugs out of their new system, I didn’t have anything new written so we decided to record our version of “Not Fade Away” a song written by Buddy Holly. All I can remember is a guy named Cody who was the engineer and we talked on the phone and set up the time for the session. Ok, I just googled Stereo-Sonic Recording Corp. Cody and found out his name was Ed Cody, and there were some things about him. Numero Group profile – tribunedigital-chicagotribune If the 8 track master of “Not Fade Away” still exists it would now be with the Numero Group according to this 2 page article from the Chicago Tribune 2013, or in a storage locker. Apparently Cody kept acetates and master tapes of his sessions at Stereo-Sonic, ours would have been one of the first on their new 8 track machine. Wow, I never knew any of this or even thought of trying to find out until you asked me. I can’t remember where we recorded the other 2 songs I wrote “People” and “Sunday Dreamin” which are on the other acetate that has no label, I do know it was in Jan. or Feb. of ’69 and also done in Chicago. Earlier this year I talked to a record collector in Milw. who say’s he has an identical acetate of “People” and “Sunday Dreamin” which baffles me because I can remember there was only one made the day of our session. If either of those 8 track masters could be retrieved, then they could be digitized and made to sound like they could never have sounded back then.

TT: So was the falling out what lead to the Next Five’s disbandment? Did the band try to go on without them?

EO: Well the band lasted for 3+ years which was actually a pretty good amount of time for young teenage bands of the time. About half way through that time our drummer Tom Stewart left the band due to reasons I don’t remember, other then some misunderstandings with one or two of the other guy’s. Tom played the drums on “Little Black Egg” “He Stole My Love” “Mama Said” and “Talk To Me Girl”. That was when John Kruck joined for the duration of the band. John Played drums on “Sunny Sunny Feeling” “Whats That Melody” and all the songs on the acetates. Come the spring of ’69, Con our manager was settled in New York, Paul our producer was in Virginia and Steve Thomas our guitar player was heavily into med school. Gordy Wayne Olski the bass player and I were trying to keep the whole thing together while waiting for the release of “Sunny Sunny Feeling”. We held onto the bands farm house as long as we could but the money started to disappear. I can remember calling Steve Wax at Jubilee Records practically every day. When the record was finally released we found there was very little distribution and the radio stations only played it for a short time. Gordy and I jumped into another band and went to Charleston South Carolina to play at the Army Navy Club where we were introduced to playing 6 nights a week and 6 sets a night. After 3 weeks or so I left that band, jumped on an airplane and went back to Milwaukee where the realization of the demise of the Next Five became a reality.

TT: Do you feel the band accomplished everything it could and just ran its course or was there unfinished business? As a follow-up to that, was a studio album a possibility for the group?

EO: I think anybody in any band always feels that there was unfinished business in the end. Most bands didn’t get the opportunity of having someone like Con Merten for a manager and Paul Christy as a producer to guide them in the right direction. And yes, we kept bugging Paul about doing an album and he kept bugging us to keep writing.

TT: What did the other band members do after the Next Five that you know of? Do you keep in contact with any of them?

EO: After the band broke up Steve Thomas (guitar) went on to Med school and retired a few years ago, he now travels around the world, mostly to Caribbean and resides in Texas when he’s back in the states. I’ve had emails with him periodically just to reminisce about the old day’s and to catch up on what we’ve been up to. Gordy Wayne Olski (bass) went on to play in numerous bands and is still playing and resides in Wisconsin. I last talked to him a few years ago. Tom “Ashbolt” Stewart “1st drummer” also went on playing in different bands and he too is still playing and resides in Oregon. I have communication with him on Facebook. John Kruck (2nd drummer) went on to be a psychologist and is retired and living in Wisconsin. I talked to him a few years back.

Mark "Hastings" Buscaglia on the Hammond organ during a recording session
Mark “Hastings” Buscaglia on the Hammond organ during a Next Five recording session
Some years ago I was heart broken to hear from the cousin of Mark “Hastings” Buscaglia (keyboards), he had passed away back in 2005. The last time I saw Mark was in the late 70’s out here in Los Angeles where he went from being a keyboard player to playing drums in a progressive rock band.

The roster would not be complete without our road manager Randy “Spider” Schneider, who was as much a part of the band as the members. He drove the truck, hauled the Hammond organ and those Eros amps and set up all the gear to precision, not to mention the fact he was our protector. He is doing well and living in Wisconsin. I’ve been living in Los Angeles since 1977, I moved out here to go to work for the Robb’s at Cherokee Recording Studio’s in Hollywood where Con Merten was the General Manager. I’ve been playing with bands since I left Cherokee in 1980, and still playing now with a great bunch of guy’s around L.A.

TT: I have a copy of the Springdale ’73 album. Could you provide some background on the project and how it was released years later?

EO: Springdale was the name of the apartment complex in Waukesha Wisconsin where I was living back in 1973, and for no reason other then place and time I named that project “Springdale’73”. There was a time, 1972 when there was no such thing as affordable home recording. Springdale ’73 is an example of early affordable home recording using the newest technology of the time, the Teac 3340s and the SR-55 drum machine. For example, the Beatles recorded Sgt. Peppers on a Studer 4 track 1 inch tape machine, nearly the price of a house at the time. The Teac 3340s was a 4 track quarter inch tape machine, perhaps the price of a good used car. Every teenage band in the 60’s knew how hard it was to get a song recorded. You needed an established band, a producer, a manager, a recording studio and engineer, a good song, and lots of money, just to get 7 or 8 parts recorded together into a song. There was an actual turning point from the 60’s to now, and that was in 1973 when the Teac 3340S entered the commercial market. At an affordable price, the Teac gave you the same multi-track capabilities as those four track studios of the 60’s. Another new technology of the time was the Univox SR55 drum machine. Together, the Teac and drum machine started the home recording revolution – the complete self containment for songwriters of which is the norm today. In a nutshell, “Springdale ’73” isn’t about the songs anymore as much as it’s about one of the earliest (maybe the earliest) example of home recording using the Teac 3340s to it’s fullest extent.

TT: From what I read, you recorded 30 songs during this time. Will there a “Volume 2” to Springdale in the future?

EO: There were actually more like 40 songs that were recorded in a very short period of time back in ’73 and into ’74 using the electric drummer, but there isn’t any reason to release any more of those dated songs because it’s more about the technology and the technique of early home recording. At the time it was about making demo’s, now it’s simply about the tech part. I stopped using the electric drummer sometime in ’75 but used the Teac well into the 90’s. In 1980 I started writing for my band that was new wave. I set up a drum set in my house and I played drums on my recordings. Recently my publisher released 12 songs of mine on YouTube, one of those songs was from my 1980 recordings where it’s just drums, guitar and vocals, that was the way I would present the feel of the songs to the band.

TT: Do you recall any bands you recorded?

EO: I recorded at Cherokee with my band in 1980, I was never a studio musician there, most of their clients were the heavy’s, Rod Stewart, Neil Diamond, Barbara Streisand, Journey, Tom Petty, Cars, with producers like George Martin, Tom Dowd, and Roy Thomas Baker. I did do some 2nd engineering and worked in different capacities on sessions with War, Rod Stewart, Bill Quateman and others. My favorite was doing a 3 day session with the Beach Boys and their wives who were putting vocals on old Beach Boy reject songs just for the fun of it. It was like a family party they were having and they were all there including their kids, Mike Love was the only one who wasn’t there. When I started working at Cherokee they were in the middle of building studio 2 so I helped with that and then a remodel of studio 3. I can only think of 2 times I actually recorded with a client and that was clapping with Burton Cummings (Guess Who) on one of his songs and singing some back up thing with Livingston Taylor, James Taylor’s brother.

TT: When did you first notice the Next Five’s songs were being featured on compilation albums as notable as Pebbles and Mindrocker? Where you surprised the group was receiving that much coverage?

EO: I was living in Burbank in ’81 when a friend called and said another mutual friend in Chicago had just bought an album called Pebbles Vol 10 and “Talk To Me Girl” was first cut side A. I had another friend that was coming over to my house that day and I asked him if he could stop at Tower Records on Sunset to see if it was being sold there, well it was and he bought 2 of the albums and kept one, I still have the other one. That told me it was probably being sold in New York as well, I had no idea it was being sold all over the world. I didn’t know about the Mindrocker album with “He Stole My Love” on it for years, and I didn’t know the scope of the whole thing until the internet. In the last few years I found 5 of our recordings on 11 different comp albums, some legal and some bootlegged. Yes, it was a surprise. I did think we were long forgotten.

TT: Has anyone ever approached you with releasing a retrospective album that would compile all the Next Five’s recordings?

EO: No I haven’t heard from any record company about doing that, sounds like fun though. A lot of people don’t know this but you have to bake the tapes first or dehydrate them. I think I baked the Springdale ’73 tapes at 135 degrees for about or 4 hours. There are different ways of doing it and it takes the stickiness out of the old tape.

Closing statement by Eric Olson:

Tyler, on behalf of the Next Five and everyone affiliated with it, I would like to thank you, your magazine and your readers for taking interest in our experiences of 50 years ago, it was truly a magical time for us. We all went on to play in many other successful bands throughout the years and most of us are still at it today, but there was nothing like being a teenager in the 60’s and having those experiences. As of today, which is 8/12/16, I’m enjoying playing in a band for the last 2 years in Los Angeles with people who have had similar experiences, W. Michael Lewis on keyboards has been with groups such as Spirit, Mark Lindsay, Quicksilver Messenger Service and was on the Disco charts for 4 years, Terry Rangno on bass who had been a child actor and has been with the We Five for over 43 years, Glenn Stacey on sax and Tim Shea on drums, both have been pro musicians in Los Angeles for decades. We have a lot of fun taking long breaks at rehearsals and sitting around telling stories of days gone by.

Eric Robert Olson

The Portraits

The Portraits in New York, 1968, from left: Gary Myers, Jerry Tawney, Stan Ray and Phil Alagna
The Portraits, by Gary E. Myers

Milwaukee Roots

The Capitol, Liz, Nike, RCA, Sidewalk and Tri-Disc record labels all released singles by groups called the Portraits between 1959 and 1968; I was a member of the Portraits on Sidewalk.

The roots of the band began in January 1964 in Milwaukee, when rhythm guitarist Duane Smith put together a new lineup for his band, the Cashmeres: singer/guitarist Doug Weiss, bassist Tom Hahn, and myself on drums. The new Cashmeres landed their first gig backing Tommy Roe in the Skyroom at Monreal’s on 16th & National, and soon moved into the regular six-night-a-week gig there. Hahn and I had recorded for Tide Records in Los Angeles the previous summer (’63) while working with Milwaukee’s Darnells in Orange County. Around April 1964 Tide contacted Hahn about cutting two more sides for them. The Kingsmen had placed Tide’s copyright, “Mojo Workout” on their “Louie Louie” album, and Tide wanted to put out a single with one of their signed artists. We cut the song and a B-side at Dave Kennedy Studios (augmenting our session with three members of the Skunks) and changed our name to the Mojo Men to help promote the record.

Nothing happened with the record, but the Mojo Men worked steadily in and around Milwaukee, along with gigs in Grand Rapids and Detroit. We backed Johnny Tillotson and Chuck Berry, and worked opposite Jerry Lee Lewis. In summer 1965 Doug Weiss was hit with a 30-day jail term (driving with a suspended license, I believe), so the Mojo Men had to make a move. Guitarist John Rondell (Beilfuss) and bassist Phil Alagna were looking for work, having returned from a Southern California trip along with singer Billy Joe Burnette. (Rondell and Burnette had also worked with Milwaukee’s Legends on their 1964 Florida trip). Duane Smith and Tom Hahn had begun to be at odds, so the Mojo Men let Hahn go and added Rondell and Alagna, expanding to five pieces when Weiss was released,

Move to Los Angeles

In August 1965 the Mojo Men relocated to the L.A. area. On the drive out we heard “Off The Hook” by another Mojo Men, but it didn’t chart nationally so we paid little attention to it. By October, however, that same San Francisco band did chart with “Dance With Me”. We were not happy about that, but the record only reached #61, so we took no action – except that an agent booked us on a few of their gigs. (We later learned that the record got airplay in Milwaukee on our reputation). Doug Weiss adopted the stage name of Doug Masters and left to join a Las Vegas style review. The Mojo Men briefly replaced him with Billy Joe Burnette and then Tim Welch, but Paul Stefan (Stefaniak), an excellent singer and another old friend from Milwaukee (where he had regional hits with the Royal Lancers and the Apollos), was also in the area. He joined around March 1966.

During a steady gig at the Tip Top in Inglewood we backed the Coasters, Penguins, Rivingtons, Dick & Dee Dee, and Jerry Wallace. The schedule included Friday and Saturday after-hours sessions where many musicians and music-biz people hung out, and we were getting a good local reputation. One of the frequent sit-in’s (possibly Bobby Mason) was a Mike Curb protégé and he convinced Curb to come and see us. Curb liked what he heard and we signed a record deal with him and a management contract with Clancy Grass, who had an office in Curb’s suite and some sort of connection with him.

This was not the most opportune time for the band to head back to the Midwest, but Smith’s wife was pregnant and wanted to be near her family back home, so off we went. By the end of the summer everyone but Smith was itching to be back in California; the four of us decided to make the move while Smith stayed. Phil Alagna became the new leader mostly by default, being the only one interested in handling the business aspect.

The Portraits, 1967
Name Changes

The Mojo Men went back into Curb’s studio, and returned to a five-piece lineup with the addition of another old Milwaukee friend, B3 player Pat Short (Cibarrich). John Rondell had written “Runaround Girl” and we cut it with Paul Stefan’s lead vocal. We also recorded the vocal for “Hiding From Myself”, a filler song for the Dr. Goldfoot & the Girl Bombs soundtrack LP. By this time (fall 1967) the San Francisco Mojo Men had hit Billboard’s top 40 with “Sit Down I Think I Love You”; now we needed to change our name. Stefan wanted it to be “Paul & the (something)”, so at a meeting in Mike Curb’s office, we began tossing out names. We thought it would be good to have another “P” word, and it got down to Paul & the Pack. I didn’t like it, but I was the lone dissenting voice so it won.

I had been a subscriber to Billboard Magazine for several years and, within a day or two of the Curb meeting, I discovered that “I (Who Have Nothing)” by Terry Knight and the Pack was edging its way up the Hot 100. This was no good! After our gig that night I began looking in the dictionary under “P” for another name. When I got to “picture” I noticed the synonym “portrait” and thought, “That’s it!” I called a couple of the guys at 3 AM (having just gotten off the gig at 1:45) and they agreed that Paul & the Portraits would be a good name. The next day I called Curb’s office and he understood, but said he had already ordered 20,000 record labels showing Paul & the Pack. So, the Dr. Goldfoot LP bills the Portraits as Paul & the Pack, while the photo on the back cover shows us holding a picture frame to go with the name Portraits. Members depicted (L-R) are Phil Alagna, Gary Myers, Paul Stefan, John Rondell and Pat Short.

Then came another typical 60’s setback – Paul got drafted. We did a few gigs, and even another recording session, as a four-piece band, but we were lacking a strong lead singer, and then Pat Short also left. Clancy Grass had previously managed singer Jerry Tawney, who had come to L.A. from West Virginia and released a 1966 single on Liberty. Tawney had since gone back to WV, but Clancy convinced him to return to the coast to join our band. We re-recorded “Runaround Girl” with Jerry and we did the vocal for “Devil’s Angels” (as “Jerry & the Portraits”) over the same track used for Davie Allan’s instrumental version. We also cut a remake of “A Million To One” along with one of Jerry’s songs, “Let’s Tell The World”.


The Portraits always used much vocal harmony, influenced by the Four Seasons, the Happenings, the Buckinghams, Jay & the Americans, and others. Most of the band’s sessions began with a basic track of bass, guitar and drums (Phil, John and me), and then instrumental overdubs: Phil on piano or organ, John with a second guitar part, and I sometimes added acoustic rhythm guitar. On one or two sessions I added vibes, and we used studio horn men on a few songs. The four of us would lay down our background vocal parts and then double them before putting Jerry’s lead on top. Once, when John was gone, we used our friend Larry Carlton, who went on to become one of the top studio guitarists in the business. Phil Alagna and I also played on two sessions for the Mystic Astrologic Crystal Band, another group managed by Clancy Grass. The Portraits recorded several unreleased songs and we sang on a Curb-produced commercial that was never used.

The Four Seasons had hit with their update of Cole Porter’s “I’ve Got You Under My Skin” in 1966, and Jerry came up with the idea of re-doing “Over The Rainbow” in a similar fashion. We incorporated a bit of the arrangement from the Demensions’ 1961 hit, but added much of our own, along with the switch to the up-tempo rock beat. I did the group arrangement and studio guitarist/arranger Don Peake wrote the charts for the “sweetening” – French horn, chimes and strings.

The record was released December 1967 and everyone involved was excited about it. However, we were not happy about coupling it with “Runaround Girl”; we felt that both songs were A-sides. This turned out to be a valid belief, as each side got airplay in different areas. One or the other charted in several cities, but neither charted nationally. There was also some talk that December was not a good time to release it. Airplay was more limited that month because of Christmas music, and perhaps by January some stations would have already put it aside. The Portraits did a Beverly Hills show with Mike Clifford, Ian Whitcomb, Boyce & Hart, and Don & Goodtimes, and appeared on TV8 Dancetime in San Diego, but little else developed. The band probably should have toured, especially to the cities where the record was played.

In early 1968 John Rondell left to join a San Diego band and Stan Ray (Hartford) replaced him. Around March I saw a trade ad for the Schaefer Talent Hunt, a large advertising promotion seeking new talent to record the Schaefer Beer jingle in New York. Without even mentioning it to the other members, I filled out the entry blank and sent it along with our two Sidewalk singles. To my great surprise, a few weeks later I received a telegram stating that we were one of the 10 winners. We were flown to New York and, because our selection was based on our “Over The Rainbow” vocals (they didn’t know that we were a self-contained band), studio musicians (including noted drummer Mel Lewis) cut the tracks, which were arranged by Peter Matz in the style of our “Over The Rainbow” version.

At A&R Studios in New York, from left: unidentified, arranger Peter Matz, Stan Ray, Jerry Tawney, Gary Myers and Phil Alagna.
Beyond the 60’s

For the remainder of 1968 into 1969 the Portraits had a six-nighter at the Water Wheel in West Covina with little or no involvement from Clancy. However, we were still under contract to him and, when he learned of our beer commercial, he wanted a cut. We disagreed, but at some point, Jerry went back to him for more recording sessions without telling the rest of the band; the esprit de corps was fading. John Rondell had rejoined the band, but in August 1969 he and I left to join Duane Smith (original Cashmere’s leader from 1964), who now had a Nevada-based show group, the Cee & Dee Review.

The Portraits continued with more changes under Phil Alagna (now going as Phil Anthony). In December 1972, after I had left Duane Smith and worked many other gigs back in SoCal, I rejoined. The band had just joined forces with Sanetti & Rueda, a Stockton-based music/comedy team. Over the next few years we worked Reno and Lake Tahoe several times, along with Las Vegas and many other showrooms in California, Oregon and Arizona. I was replaced in March 1975 when a drummer who had previously worked with two of the other members was looking for work.

I continued playing full time in and around the greater L.A./Orange County areas until March 1982, and then joined a “casual” band led by Stan Ray, the guitarist from the Portraits’ beer commercial period. Phil Alagna kept the Portraits going through many more personnel shifts until that summer, when he disbanded the group and joined Stan and me on the casuals. By summer 1983 I was also doing occasional gigs as a leader, for which I exhumed the Portraits name. One day that summer, as a surprise to Phil and Stan, I called Jerry Tawney to see if he could come to our gig. He made it down and the four of us got together for the first time in 15 years.


Duane Smith, always a hard-working businessman, quit performing in the 80’s and opened a studio rental business in Portland, OR. That venture grew into West Coast Event Productions with major clients and a second office in Las Vegas.

Doug Weiss (Masters) gigged for many years in the Twin Cities and then returned to Las Vegas, where he was the Bobby Hatfield part of a Righteous Brothers tribute act. He died October 2007 (b: 8/3/42; Milwaukee).

Tom Hahn (b: 1939; Tipton, IN) had left the music business by 1970 and settled in Michigan.

Phil Alagna (b: 1943; Milwaukee) worked in piano sales and later as a piano tuner, while continuing to gig part-time. He was still playing in 2009 as the Phil Anthony Band, mostly for senior dances and functions.

John Beilfuss (Rondell) (b: 1945; Milwaukee) returned to Wisconsin in the 70’s and continued playing until 1996. He subsequently began a wedding photography business in the Eau Claire area.

Billy Joe Burnette had releases on many labels from at least 1965-79. He scored a big success in 1976 as the co-writer of Red Sovine’s “Teddy Bear” during the CB radio boom.

Tim Welch (b. 7/41; Wichita, KS and was shot & killed in W. Hollywood in 2/72) had previous releases on Edit and Reprise and a later release on Attarack.

Paul Stefaniak (Stefan) (b: 1941; Milwaukee) had rejoined the Portraits after his military duty, but left the music business by the mid-70’s. He was last known to be living in the Yuma, AZ area.

Pat Cibarrich (Short) had relocated to Louisville, KY in the late 60’s and subsequently returned to Milwaukee, continuing to play music. He died January 1998.

Jerry Tawney connected with writer/producer Jerry Fuller in the 70’s and had several solo releases on Bell. One of his songs appeared on Al Wilson’s La La Peace Song LP, and he was also in Yellow Hand on Capitol. Tawney left the music business in 1982 and became a mortgage loan consultant for Countrywide.

Stan Ray became a successful attorney in Los Alamitos, CA, specializing in estate planning.

Gary Myers (b: 1942; Milwaukee): I worked for a large music store in Arcadia, CA from 1985-2006, while continuing to play a variety of gigs in the greater L.A./O.C. area, including occasional work with Phil Alagna. As of 2009 I had written and self-published four books (see here for more information); still playing, and as recently as January 2008, had used the name “The Portraits”.

The Darnells

The Darnells circa 1962, clockwise from top L: Tom Hahn, Mike Blattner, Bruce Wells, unknown (sax),
center: Denny King (photo courtesy Bruce Wells).

These Darnells (unrelated to the ones on Gordy) began in Milwaukee as Denny & the Darnells circa 1959, with various musicians (including future Legends drummer Jim Sessody) passing through the band. The line-up that went into the Cuca studios to record the first single consisted of lead guitarist Denny King, tenor saxophonist Tom Fabre, singer Gary Lane, Bruce Wells on piano, Norm Sherian on rhythm guitar, and Jerry Sworske on drums. The A-side is their remake of Gene Vincent’s “Little Sheila”, while the instrumental flip is a Latin standard, featuring the jazz oriented sax-man Fabre.

Mike Blattner eventually replaced Sworske on drums, and singer Kim Marie was a member when they played off-night gigs at the Spa on 5th & Wisconsin in September 1962. Our Florida band, the Nightbeats, was touring through Milwaukee’s ACA agency, and they had booked us into the Spa for two weeks. We were looking for a different guitar man and King was looking for steady work, so he joined our band, putting a temporary end to the Darnells. However, five months later King and I left the Nightbeats to reform the Darnells as a trio, with bassist Tom Hahn. Hahn had already been out to Southern California with the Bonnevilles and he wanted to make another trip in order to obtain a Mexican divorce from his estranged wife. A SoCal trip sounded great to Denny and me, so in May 1963 we headed west and landed a gig for the summer at the Firehouse, a beer bar on 17th Street in Costa Mesa.

On the referral of the Nightbeats’ bass player, we connected with the Tide label in L.A. and recorded eight sides – two instrumentals and a pair of vocals by each of us. “Spooner”, the first instrumental, is an up-tempo, surfy, 12-bar blues guitar rocker. The flip is another 12-bar blues, this time a slightly jazzy mid-tempo swing. Denny King’s “She’s My Girlfriend” is teenish, while the flip has the flavor of Troy Shondell’s “This Time”. My own release is teen pop with added strings and voices. To my knowledge, Hahn’s vocals were the only cuts not released from those sessions.

We returned to Milwaukee that fall and, in January 1964, Hahn and I left to join the Cashmeres, bringing a final end to the Darnells. The Cashmeres metamorphosized into the Mojo Men (who later evolved into the Portraits with releases on Sidewalk). Hahn left the Mojo Men and did some work in Memphis with Ace Cannon (“Tuff,” 1962) before leaving the music business and settling in Michigan. After doing some club work with country singer Johnny Carver, Denny King returned to California and teamed up with the Canadian Beadles (sic), whom we had previously met in Ishpeming, Michigan. That combination recorded one single for Tide as the Mojo Men, but they had no connection with the Milwaukee Mojo Men. (It seems that Tide Records, having had their only national chart appearance with Larry Bright’s “Mojo Workout” in 1960, tried to capitalize on the “Mojo” name in every possible way).

After his solo recording for Specialty in 1972, King moved to the Sacramento area and formed a booking agency. He later imported medical supplies from Korea and had other business involvements before he died in 2000; Mike Blattner died in 2004. Gary Lane had gone on to work with the Mad Lads and the Saints Five, and later owned a club in Milwaukee. Besides the Darnells, Jerry Sworske had drummed with several other Milwaukee bands, including the Noblemen and Junior & the Classics. He later became a police officer. Tom Fabre moved to Los Angeles and continued in music until his death in 2007. Kim Marie has organized frequent oldies shows in Milwaukee since 2000. This writer has lived in the greater L.A. area since 1965, played full-time until 1982, and part-time since then.

Darnells releases:

Sara 1055: Little Sheila/Besame Mucho, 11/61
Tide 1090: Spooner/Sleepy, 9/63


Tide 1091: She’s My Girlfriend/Long Lonely Night (Denny King), /63
Edit 2005: Poor Little Baby/If (You’d Only Be Mine) (Gary Myers), 11/63
Tide 2000: Surfin’ Fat Man/Paula (Mojo Men), 2/64
Tide 2001: Mojo Workout/I Got A Woman (Tommy Hahn & the Mojo Men), 5/64
Specialty 726: Bessie Mae/Go Down Moses (Denny King), /72
Specialty LP 5003: Evil Wind Is Blowing (Denny King), /72

Gary E. Myers is author of two histories of Wisconsin music of the 50’s & 60’s, “Do You Hear That Beat” and “On That Wisconsin Beat”, as well as two instructional books, “Understanding and Using Chords and Chord Progressions” and “Understanding and Using Scales and Modes”. Check Gary’s website for more information.

Darnells in Appleton: Tom Hahn, Gary Myers, Denny King

Darnells 1963: Tom Hahn, Gary Myers, Denny King

The Dynastys on Fan Jr., Coulee and Jerden

Dynastys Coulee 45 Go GorillaOK, it’s not as heavy as the Shandells, but I can’t believe no one ever mentions this version of “Go Gorilla”. The original of the song was done by Chicago r&b group the Ideals in 1963, who had a #3 regional hit with it on KQV in Pittsburgh.

The Dynastys version come out of Wisconsin in September of ’64, followed by the Shandells a few months later. The instrumental flip, “Birmingham”, shows how accomplished a band they were as it really swings. Neither song has been comped before to my knowledge.

The Coulee label was out of La Crosse, Wisconsin, owned by Bill Grafft, who also ran the Boom, Knight and Transaction labels. The Dynasty’s 45 (Coulee 108) comes just before Dee Jay and the Runaways’ “Love Bug Crawl” / “The Pickup” (Coulee 109).

The Dynasty’s definitely honed their skills pre-British Invasion, with large helpings of rockabilly, r&b and even surf and folk music in their sound. They originally came from Oskaloosa, Iowa. Their first 45 came out on the Fan, Jr label in 1964, a cover of the Eldorados’ “I’ll Be Forever Loving You” backed with another cover, Harold Dorman’s “Mountain of Love”, which Johnny Rivers made a hit not long after the Dynasty’s version came out. Production by Orlie Breunig.

As Gary Myers wrote in a comment below, the band came from Milwaukee. Band members were George Shaput (guitar), Duane Schallitz (guitar), Mark Ladish (organ), Dave Maciolek (bass), Jim Serrano (lead guitar) and Kenny Arnold (drums).

Dynastys Jerden 45 Forever and a DayAt the band’s request to play on the West Coast, their manager Lindy Shannon booked them into the Longhorn in Portland, Oregon. Jerry Dennon of Jerden Records saw them there and heard their demos, leading to their final 45 in 1966, “It’s Been a Long, Long Time” / “Forever and a Day”.

On “Forever and a Day” the band manages to create a memorable harmony pop ballad without sacrificing their strong rhythm and drumming.

Not long after this release George Shaput joined the Shades of Blue and then played with Conway Twitty. The band reunited at a La Crosse show to honor Lindy Shannon in 1994.

Anyone have a photo of the group?

The Glass Candle

Glass Candle Target 45 Light the Glass CandleThe Glass Candle is an excellent psychedelic 45 from early 1969. “Light the Glass Candle” has piercing guitar lines; “Keep Right on Living” chugs along to steady tom tom beats with vocals that sound either very young or speeded up.

Both sides written by Jimmy Tillmann. Two other members named Roger and Danny have signed my copy of the 45. There must have been at least one more member, as the lineup includes guitar, bass organ and drums.

The 45 was produced by Alan Posniak, and seems to be their only recording. The Target label was based in Appleton, Wisconsin, but I’ve read the band was from Milwaukee, about a hundred miles south of Appleton.

Glass Candle Target 45 Keep Right On Living

The Ethics and the Invasion

The Ethics took part in the Milwaukee Sentinel Rock’n’Roll Revue on December 30, 1965, their version of “Down the Road Apiece” preserved on a lo-fi LP of the event that I haven’t heard.

In 1966 they released “(A Whole Lot Of) Confusion”, featuring a tough rhythm with guitar and vocals to match. The flip, “Out Of My Mind” is a folky-pop number written by the band.

This was their only 45 as the Ethics before changing their name to the Invasion in 1967. “The Invasion Is Coming” was a catchy start. This song was also done as “The Invaders Are Coming” by the Young Savages on the same label (Dynamic Sound 2006), but I prefer the vocals on the Invasion’s version.

The lineup at this point included Don Gruender guitar, Mark Miller bass, Gene Peranich keyboards and Mike Jablonski drums. Later on members would include Bob McKenna and Tony Menotti on guitar, P.T. Pedersen and Gary Frey on bass, Rick Cier keyboards and Bruce Cole on drums.

Wailing farfisa, fuzz guitar: their last 45 “Do You Like What You See?” gets all the elements right. It’s also the rarest of these three by far! Gene Peranich and Mike Jablonski wrote this song, unlike much of their other material.

Lennie LaCour (aka Lenny LaCour) was their producer, publisher and principal songwriter. LaCour was born in Louisiana and had a half dozen rockabilly releases on Academy and his own Lucky Four label before going into production. Besides Dynamic Sound, he was also running Magic Touch, known more for soul music.

The Ethics – (A Whole Lot Of) Confusion / Out Of My Mind (Dynamic Sound 2001)
The Invasion – The Invasion Is Coming / I Want To Thank You (Dynamic Sound 2004)
The Invasion – Do You Like What You See? /The Wind Keeps On Blowing (Dynamic Sound 2009)

The Mustard Men

Really don’t know anything about the Mustard Men other than that they were from Wisconsin.

Wish I owned this business card myself, but I saved $50 by just buying the 45.

The band recorded at Dave Kennedy Recording Studios in Milwaukee and released this on the Raynard label, the same label that featured the Bryds great “Your Lies” among others.

“I Lost My Baby” opens with a perfect guitar and organ intro, settles into a nice groove with good vocals that occasionally get excited, and features a fine bluesy guitar solo which kind of falls apart towards the end as some of the notes miss the intended pitch. Still, an A+ in my book for the overall sound they achieve.

The flip is “Another Day”, credited to Donne & the Mustard Men.

Thanks to Gary Myers for the photo.